Different Wisdom

Discussions about all things to do with buses, trucks, and the homes made within them.

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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Thanks, Jack. Looks like an excellent setup and literally "foolproof." I think I said earlier (I was tired and in a hurry) that my AC is grounded to the chassis. It is not, and it will never be. My only question had to do with 12v and 24v DC house systems. Those I will chassis ground.

I like your multi receptacle system. I've never trusted automatic transfer switches. Manual transfer switches seem more reliable. Multiple receptacles would be the most reliable.

My shore power line wires directly to the Magnum 4000w inverter. When I use the generator, I plug the shore power cord to its output panel. The generator has never been mounted in the bus, and now I have no need to mount it since I'm going APU. The generator has always been grounded to an 8' ground rod. Since the generator is no longer in its little shed by the bus, and we no longer use it, I believe that I need to wire a dummy receptacle to the ground rod and keep the shore line plugged into it for grounding only. Most of the places we stay when traveling do not have shore power, so I guess we're groundless there.
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Bev and I drove to central Pennsylvania on June 1. I spent the next two days removing our APU from a wrecked Freightliner tractor. Even with a downloaded installation manual, it was slow work on two scorching days.

This is an older model. A label on the receiver/dryer specified R12, and we haven't used that stuff for a long time. AFAIK, all Tripacs include an "Airtronic" diesel-fired Esbar heater mounted in the sleeper. This unit has that, but it also includes a similarly-sized hydronic, diesel-fired heater mounted on the side of the main unit case. Both the hydronic heater and the Tripac's primary cooling system were plumbed into the tractor's cooling system for engine preheat. I'm planning to plumb the Tripac's cooling system through a blower coil mounted somewhere in our bedroom before running back to a larger radiator at the Tripac. The original radiator is seriously corroded and is unusable.

The air conditioning condenser coil mounted on the back of the tractor cab. It took some damage in the crash, but the coil appears to be intact. Its fan and fan mount will be replaced. I'll be able to mount the condenser and the new receiver/dryer on the bulkhead behind our bedroom. I'll replace the AC compressor, and of course we'll charge with R134A. The evaporator appears to be in good shape. I'm still thinking about a place to mount the evaporator in our bedroom.

The first thing I'll do after disassembly is take the starter and alternator to a good electric shop and see if they're rebuildable or need to be replaced. I'm not going to keep the unit in its original, steel case. It will sit in the utility area over the bus engine and removing the case will make it easier to service.

I'm keeping an open mind about rebuilding the two cylinder Yanmar. The hour meter shows only 1650, and it may be in good shape internally. The outside needs lots of work. I'll wait until I can get it started and check it out. My research indicates that it's rated at 13.7 hp. The entire unit has corrosion from road salt. Here are a few pics:

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In this shot you can see the hydronic heater at the bottom of the photo. I've not seen any later Tripacs with one of these, but it may still be an option.

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My current plan is to add a 24v alternator to the APU and add a single 8D AGM battery to use as a second house system. The APU can start from the single 8D, its 12v needs will be supplied by its own alternator, and we can pull our small 12v needs from the battery when the APU is not running. Taking the APU out of its case should give me plenty of room to add a second alternator.

I've been too busy to do much, but I can't wait to get it torn down enough to start working with it. Hopefully I'll have more to report soon.

In the meanwhile, I'm still planning to reskin, install new windows and paint the exterior before cold weather hits. I recently sold a VW van to a professional paint and body man, and part of the deal is that he will shoot the top coat. I'm not afraid to paint something this big, but I know that I would end up with sags and runs, and that just won't do. Interior work is on hold until I get the reskin done. That way I can do permanent interior paneling rather than stuff that has to come out again. I've found a local source of 5mm high-grade oak paneling. Planning to urethane finish it natural and cover walls and ceiling. Cabinets will probably be natural finish maple.

As you know, bus converters never need to look for ways to spend their time.

Best to all,

Jim
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Great news! I'm not going to have to custom build my waste tank. Someone on busconversions.com posted a link that led to this: http://www.tuff-jon.com/sales_ht_105.html

The tank is 105 gallons, and it will fit well in my unusual space. An inch and a half taller would be ideal, but I'm not complaining. It will be a combined gray/black tank. I can get it in black for $125, but I'm going to spend another $60 and get it in white so that I can visually monitor content level. Made in Evansville, IN. Shipping is another $144, but still a good price. I have to go to Elkhart soon to buy windows, and I may swing by the SW corner of the state and pick up this tank on my way home.

The down side is that it will leave me less room for fresh water. Still working on how to deal with that. May involve a smaller tank under the floor extension and one or two more in cabinets.

This board is awfully quiet. Did everyone die and not tell me? How rude.

Here's hoping you're well and just busy.

Jim
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somewhereinusa
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by somewhereinusa »

I have to go to Elkhart soon to buy windows, and I may swing by the SW corner of the state and pick up this tank on my way home.
Stop in and say HI, We're kinda on the route between Evansville and Elkhart. Here's a link to all of the surplus stores in the area that I know about.
http://somewhereinusa.x10.mx/surplus.html
This board is awfully quiet. Did everyone die and not tell me? How rude.
I got busy working on something else. I needed a new towed, so I bought a Rabbit diesel pickup that needed the engine rebuilt. Finished it last week, first mileage check
was 48 mpg. :) Tow bar bracket is built, towed wiring almost done. Now I have to get the temporary shower done for a camping trip next week or SWMBO won't go.
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Stealth Camper »

It's summer. Every minute I can be outdoors is taken and then collapse in a worn out old heap after dark....
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

I know what it's like to be too busy and then too tired.
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Finally, a bit to report. This past week I made a three day whirlwind trip to Indiana for bus parts. I drove first to Elkhart to buy windows, and on the return leg, I swung through Evansville in the southwest corner of the state to pick up our new combined waste water tank. I learned a few things along the way.

First, every road in the state of Indiana is under construction. Except one. And wouldn't you know it, they were putting up orange and white barrels on that one as I left the state. If you need to travel through Indiana, consider renting a helicopter. Especially if you're going anywhere near Indianapolis.

Second, I discovered that you cannot get to Evansville from Elkhart. They both start with "E", so they should be near each other, right? Not so much. You have to leave Elkhart to get a good starting place for a trip to Evansville, and I spent most of a day trying to find the good starting point. I never did. Didn't help that I was under pressure to get to my tank source before the end of their work day. Had it not been for the fact that a tiny portion of the southwestern corner of Indiana is on central time, I would have been forced to spend another night on the road.

And speaking of time zones, why is so much of Indiana on eastern time? Makes no sense to me, but I didn't draw the lines.

In spite of being so close, I did not get to visit Somewhereinusa. We did talk on the phone, and I enjoyed that brief contact. Thanks for your helpful input, Dick.

The trip was grueling, but I made it back with only minor difficulty. I was driving my trusty '85 Chevy square body. I knew before the trip that its starter was weak, but I hoped to make the journey before it died. I got to exactly 50 miles from home before I ended up stuck in a Burger King parking lot at 8:30 on Thursday morning. I was also having trouble with the ground cable on the truck, and I replaced it first in the hope that I could get started and make it home. No such luck.

When I pulled the starter, it ran fine in a "bench" test. (Actually held down on the parking lot by my big foot.) Found a bit of a problem when I reinstalled, however. As I tightened the battery cable, the solenoid housing came apart in my hand. Oh well, I'm only a mile and a quarter from a couple of FLAPS.

Both Advance Auto and Carquest had starters that would my fit my truck. No surprise. Millions of small block Chevys are still on the road. Both stores were willing to deliver the part. At this point, I need to confess my prejudice against the Advance/Auto Zone/O'Reily class of parts stores. Almost everything they sell appears to be Chinese made, and in my experience their dependability rate is low. Advance had a starter for about $49.

My relationship with Carquest, however, had been considerably better. Our local Carquest is my go-to store. Of course I've seen more Asian made parts in recent years, but even there, Carquest seems to manage to keep their quality and dependability. NAPA is my second choice.

The Carquest near my breakdown had a reman for $69, and a new one for $135. He seemed surprised when I asked for delivery of the new one, but I hate changing starters.

Three hours and about $150. Not bad, considering that it was the end of a 1500 mile trip. Sure is nice now when I hit the switch. How could I have been so stupid to set out with a dragging starter. You would think I had learned that lesson decades ago.

The parts buying venture was a success, and I'll report later today. In the meanwhile, I'll post one photo of a serendipitous find. I've been studying furniture construction. The couch we need has to sit on top of a 130 gallon fuel tank. We were not about to settle for a couple pieces of foam stuck to a couple pieces of plywood. I was going to build the "real" thing. Thanks to one of those great Elkhart surplus stores, now I don't have to:

Image

More soon. Best to all.

Jim
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Well, it's happened again. After months of doing almost nothing to the bus, I'm knee deep in several directions at the same time. My recent trip to Indiana yielded numerous goodies. Here is a sketchy update.

First, the holding tank. Some may recall that our available tank space is unusual for a bus conversion. After I extended the higher floor at the rear of the bus by five feet, I had an area 5' x 8' x 14" high. The rear floor is 16" higher than the main floor, but the 2" steel channel iron I used for floor joists had to go somewhere. I had planned to put a combined waste water tank, fresh water tank and four 8D AGM batteries in that space. The batteries went in with no problem, but finding tanks to fit proved difficult. I could have made them by heat welding polyester sheets, but the material was impossible to find without exorbitant cost and shipping expense. Since we've been stationary most of this year, and since we have an adequate utility building beside the bus, I've been able to put the situation out of my mind. For a while. We plan to spend all of October on the road, and we have to have tanks.

The situation became more complicated after we survived last winter. Our original plan was to not insulate the floor. That plan seems laughable now. All the floor is getting 1" of polyiso board before we lay t&g oak. That means the tank area is now only 13" high. (No finish floor in the tank/battery area.)

Recently, a random post showed up on busconversions.com listing this tank source: TSF COMPANY INC, 2930 ST. PHILIP RD, EVANSVILLE, IN 47712 800-843-9286 http://www.tuff-jon.com tsftuffjon@sbcglobal.net They sell a 105 gallon tank that is 48" x 48" x 10.5". I researched the company and the tanks and liked what I found. These are good folks. The tank costs $120 dollars in black, but I dropped another $65 and got it in white. That way we can monitor liquid level visually through an access door and not have to fool with a gauge, wiring and the like. Installing a tank with this large a footprint means finding a different location for a fresh tank, but I believe I have that worked out, too.

Here are a couple shots of the tank just off the truck:

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The 3" threaded fitting is spin welded where I wanted it.

Here is the test fit after I removed the temporary bathroom and insulated the floor:

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Raising the floor an inch made more difference than you would think in the drain outlet hole through the bus bulkhead. Cutting this hole gave me a fit last October, and it was still no fun to enlarge, but it was just grunt work. Here's a shot before the spray foam is trimmed and one with the 14g stainless trim piece installed. Dump valve will go in tomorrow:

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I ended up tying down the new tank with ratchet straps connected to eye loops bolted through the floor. I also installed a wooden sill in front of and behind the tank. Made corner protectors from an old tank from another bus. Where the ratchets contact the corner protectors, I also made guards from aluminum angle.

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I'm pleased with this tank so far. Now for the reskin story.

Even though I entertained the notion of not reskinning when we first got the bus, I soon came to my senses. Lots of folks yammer on about "all that natural light", but we are more interested in effective insulation and room for cabinets. Our cabinets will make up for not having bays or underfloor space.

The reskin job has taken on a catch-22 aura. I couldn't make a final plan until the old windows were out so I could see the exact situation, and I was unwilling to take the old windows out until I had a plan. Part of making the plan involved getting new windows. I could measure the available openings close enough with the old windows in place, but as we discovered with our old bus, new windows are a challenge. Those with deep pockets can order anything they want from a number of fine manufacturers, but that does not describe us. The only place with a good selection of surplus RV windows is Elkhart and its environs. Since they won't ship, and since I needed to see for myself, that's where I went.

I found five, good, dual pane, slide opening windows with screens. Actually came home with nine windows, but the extra four is another story. Once I had new windows, I could find no excuse for not pulling old ones. That meant ripping out temporary walls I put up last October when were planning to attend a large craft show at the North Carolina State Fair. I hope my final product will not be an omelet, but it seems like I'm breaking a lot of eggs:

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Turns out that the original windows were surrounded by the same tee slot rail used in so much of the bus. I should not have been surprised but I was. It looks like this:

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So the key to the reskin plan, at least for framing the window openings, is this:

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That's a special tee slot nut Gillig is fond of using. This one is part of what held the original door frame. I made a bunch of similar nuts to install my door assembly. Not interested in that job again. I need at least sixty for reskin frames.

Well duh! Gillig sells them. Today I ordered several score. Can't wait!

But waiting is standard in bus building. My Sikaflex adhesive arrived today, along with cleaner and primer, but when I called to order steel, they told me they're out of the sheets of 18g cold rolled I need for skin panels. Might be in Monday or Tuesday. Oh well, maybe the tee nuts will be here soon thereafter.

In the meanwhile, I have plenty other stuff to do. More later.

Best to all,

Jim
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

State of the reskin as of this afternoon:

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Bedroom window goes in the rearmost slot. Failed to get a shot of that in place. Coming together nicely, but taking forever.

I'd love to install steel tomorrow, but weather does not look promising. More detail soon.

Best to all,

Jim
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Here's more detail:

The tee slot nuts from Gillig arrived last week, and they do exactly what I wanted. After experimenting with bolt lengths, I was able to attach sections of 1-1/2" x 1/8" steel flat bar to the top and bottom tee slot channels in the window openings. At Gillig's suggestion, I used red thread lock liquid on all the bolts. I covered the side of the steel next to the aluminum with two layers of robust fiber tape. First strip in place looked like this:

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Then I welded two sections of 1-1/2" x 16g square tubing between the strips of flat bar. The tube spacing works out to 18-5/8" oc. Two tubes in each opening seems to be plenty:

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Then I was peeping through the bars:

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Here's a shot of the entire first section:

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The rear opening will house a new bedroom window. After we decided where we want the window, I welded in one upright and then used the new window as a spacer to place the other three tubes. Failed to get a shot after the horizontals were in, but here is one of the window mocked up between two uprights:

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The hardest part of this job has been getting the original structure clean enough for surface bonding. None of the crud and corrosion was deep, but it was everywhere:

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Looks better now:

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Gillig made extensive use of high bond double side tape. A heat gun makes it possible to remove taped on trim, but the tape itself is stubborn. My old industrial side grinder and a cup brush saw extensive action. As Mr. Trunt himself has observed, I'm glad I don't do this for a living. I finally have this section cleaned and framed. The new skin is on hand along with Sikaflex 252 and its requisite cleaner and primer. Waiting now for dryer weather.

I've also managed some interior work. The new 100 gallon fresh tank is here. It will sit under the bed and in front of the rear bulkhead. Here is that section of floor:

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Rear wheel wells are finished. I've mentioned before how I LOVE to drill many holes into thick stainless steel for attaching furring strips. Furring is also bonded with construction adhesive. This phase took longer than I care to admit, but it came out well:

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The top layer is quarter inch oak plywood with three coats of semi gloss polyurethane varnish. It's lightweight and looks good. I'll use more of this on walls and possibly ceiling.

I have lots to do and plenty of new goodies waiting for installation, but the reskin is top priority. Once that is done, everything I do inside is permanent. I'm tired of doing temporary installs.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has reskinned while living in the bus. I'll bet it's a small group.

Hope I can soon post photos of new steel sheets in place. Wish me luck.

Jim
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somewhereinusa
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by somewhereinusa »

Jim,

As always the finish detail looks good, it's that attention to detail that makes your projects stand out. I don't envy the living in it while converting it. It's already getting cold enough up here to need occasional heat.

What method are you going to use to heat the skin as you are installing it, or since you are gluing in on is that not necessary?
Just some notes for your consideration. When I skinned mine I was working alone, as always. I temporarily screwed a ledge just under where I wanted the sheet. I could then
set the sheet on that and use shims to get it the right height. After the sheet was in place I placed three electric space heaters placed to blow directly on the sheet, then started in the middle
with the rivets and worked my way outward. By the time I got the middle vertical row of rivets done the sheet was quite warm to the touch. I also parked the bus so that the side I was working on was facing the sun. It must have been enough, I haven't seen any sigh of buckling of any of the sheets.

Dick
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by ol trunt »

Jim, great newsy update--can't imagine living in and working on though. Like Dick I've seen sheet metal warp in the heat. It sounds like he has perfected a way to avoid that and still weld in/on the skin. Since the window deletes I did called for direct replacement of glass into the bare opening, I, like you used Silka. I also cut the fillers 1/8 " smaller than the sides and top and bottom of the opening to prevent the metal from pressing against the window case should the metal "grow" in the heat of the sun. Between the extra space and the flexibility of the Silka, I have seen no warping even in very hot direct sun.

As always your work is handsome--keep us posted as you progress. Jack
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Always a pleasure to get input from a couple of master craftsmen. Thanks for responding.

Dick, no preheat in this reskin. Unlike rivets, Sikaflex has some motion tolerance. Also, each panel will have some "crawl space" on all sides. Even more importantly, the steel skin and the steel (stainless) main pan of the bus will expand and contract at essentially the same rate. Dave Galey discusses this in "The Bus Converter's Bible." I used a similar method when I reskinned our Flx. Never had a problem with buckling or oil canning.

Writing this on Monday morning. The forecast is iffy, but I'm going for it today. Hope to get the right rear corner covered and the right front windows removed and new framing in. Oh well, I usually start the day with unreasonable expectations.

Best to all,

Jim
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

There is joy in Mudville, for no one has struck out. At least not today. Check this perspective:

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Yes, friends, that's nearly fifteen feet of gorgeous, smooth, slick, cold-rolled steel sheet occupying the space formerly held by three massive windows on the right rear corner of our bus. It came about this way:

The morning began with a forecast of possible rain throughout the day. I paid no attention for I was convinced that today's planned work was divinely empowered. I believe I was right.

The first thing I did was to rip several 1/4" wide strips from some fiberglass sheet trim I had removed from the interior of the bus.Then I bonded a row of those 1/8" thick strips to the aluminum ledge at the bottom of the area needing new skin. It looked like this:

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These strips were my long-planned means of separating the bottom edge of the steel skin panels from the aluminum ledge. The two metals are separated everywhere else by polyurethane adhesive, but I knew that would not be enough to counteract the force of gravity in this area.

Next, I moved a sheet of steel from storage, scrubbed one side with hot water and dawn detergent, dried it and cut it to length:

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Then, the Sika fun began. I measured and penciled frame dimensions onto the sheet of steel. Then I applied Sika 205 Cleaner/Activator to every contact surface with paper towels. After this dried for 10 minutes, I applied 210 Primer with a small paint brush. This primer is sticky stuff. After it dried for 30 minutes, I applied a bead of Sikaflex 252 to the bus framing. I never got a nice looking bead with the applicator tip, but I was not willing spend a lot of time trying to make it pretty since this stuff cures rapidly. I did manage to get plenty of adhesive on every necessary surface. My wife and I thought we were going to set the first sheet into place. Fortunately, our strong, 19 year old daughter stopped by at about the right time. The three of us managed to tip the sheet into place without much difficulty. We were amazed at how it seemed to suck itself into place when it got close. After a little tapping with a hammer and a block of 2x6, it looked like this:

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The interior was just as beautiful:

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After a similar process involving the second sheet, Bev and I got it safely into place. It was not much trouble for the two of us since it is only about five feet long. It's the only half sheet in the skin job. You've already seen what it looked like with both sheets. Cutting the opening for the bedroom window will happen when it's convenient. Here's the inside view:

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Some obscene, nagging voice in my head keeps telling me that this is not much to show for a day's work, but the more rational occupants of that space assure me that we're thrilled.

I'm not bothering with paint until tomorrow. The outside surfaces still have the oil coating they wore here. It will probably rain tonight, and I will probably have a little surface rust tomorrow morning, but I can deal with it.

Now, dear wife and I are headed out to celebrate with a wonderful local barbecue sandwich.

Hope to have more to report tomorrow. Best to all.

Jim
Last edited by Lostranger on Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by ol trunt »

Beautiful is indeed the correct word! Too much fun 8) 8) 8) Jack
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