Different Wisdom

Discussions about all things to do with buses, trucks, and the homes made within them.

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ol trunt
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by ol trunt »

Thanks for the update Jim. Just as I expected, you have completed major amounts of work on your project. You have great skills and produce high quality work--its really fun to see. Good luck with the class. I expect many of us would like to hear about that too. Jack
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

As usual, Jack, you're too kind. Compared to you, I'm just a hacker. I find it satisfying that you enjoy seeing my cobbling. I wish you were here to help me chase down an electrical problem with my starting system. Even with the factory manuals, it takes me lots of time to troubleshoot the electrics. Since you're not, I'll keep noodling through. I need to get a new set of chassis batteries before I can do much, though. The old ones won't hold charge long enough to do much circuit testing. Maybe I can get to that next week.

I believe I can get a few more photos up today. The way I build, one thing leads to another. Don't mean that in a flippant sense. It's just that what I want to do usually does not come into focus until I near completion of the step just before that. For instance, blanking out the one window in our laundry area for mounting electrical equipment helped me see how to enclose a good bit more of the interior. We need to get into the bus as soon as possible, but much of the interior will be changed after the body reskin next summer. I think I can do the intermediate step now without wasting a ton of material. Of course I wish I could just do the reskin first, but that's not in the financial cards.

Jack, thanks again for prodding me to post the update. That process has helped me think through several issues. Best of luck with your excellent build.

Jim in NC
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Here are a few more photos of recent work. First, floor extension with temporary floor sections and temporary wooden support wall. After the tank arrangement is finalized, this area will get two cross supports made of steel tube. The plywood section to the left of the photo will remain as permanent floor under the washer and dryer. It will probably have a vinyl cover. Most of the floor in the bus will be oak t&g. Leaving a section of plywood under the laundry appliances will make it easier to get it up when I need to access the batteries:

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Here are a couple of shots of the new electric setup. It's all temporary, but it's much better than all this stuff lying on the floor. The breaker box is not yet connected because I'm not sure where I'm going to put the inverter. I've decided to move it out of the underfloor area. The two disconnect boxes break the solar lines before and after the charge controller. So far, all my solar hardware has proven completely satisfactory.

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And finally, a couple shots of the bear claw latch. Still not sure what I'm using for a handle, but I have some ideas:

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That's all for now. More when I can find time.

Jim
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

I have a bit to report. This post will probably be disjointed since I'm working on several different areas at once. I've gotten five windows blanked from inside. This includes laundry area, utility closet, two storage closets, bathroom and part of the galley. I cut 3/4" polyiso board insulation to fit the glass, screwed 1x3 pine boards to the edges of the window frames for mid span support, and furred around the area to be enclosed with 1x3. The process looked like this:

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The window blanking went okay, but I hate to admit to myself that all this is temporary. At some point — the plan is for next spring — I'll pull all the windows and reskin that part of the bus with 12ga aluminum. I managed to do this part of the temp construction in such a way that I can reuse most of the material. It's a moot point. We had to blank the windows in order to move into the the thing soon.

I've moved the breaker box, added some dedicated outlets and cleaned up the wiring a bit, BUT (you guessed it), that's all temporary, too. Still a big improvement over what it was.

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May not look much different than in last update, but much has changed here.

I'm getting ready to bring water into the bus and begin the plumbing. On my last bus, I bought a water inlet made for a motorhome. It was plastic and looked like it would give trouble, but it was available at the local MH dealer, and it promised to do several necessary things: connect to a hose, provide a check valve, reduce pressure and screen sediment. I bought it. It broke after two years.

This time I'm using the real thing: Brass female hose bib fitting protruding through body, real brass check valve, real brass pressure reducer then real water filter. Looks like this:

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I intended for these photos to be horizontal. I was shooting straight down from above, and I guess my phone got confused. The flow in this photo is from top to bottom.

Here's a representative layout of the entry hardware plus the filter housing plus the rudimentary cold water distribution manifold. This same manifold will have several more circuits in final form. It, and its hot water counterpart, will live under the kitchen sink and give easy access to every water circuit in the bus:

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The 3/4" pex line will enter at what is the top of this photo. The top right valve will eventually control a 3/4" line that fills the fresh tank. Those will be the only 3/4" lines in the bus. The trunk of the cold distribution manifold will be 3/4", but all branches, other than the tank fill, will be 1/2". For now, the first valve will feed the water heater and the second will feed the washing machine. The one pointing toward the bottom of the photo will feed the kitchen sink for now. I'll add circuits by unscrewing the valve at the bottom with its bushing and adding a close nipple, 3/4" tee, and 1/2" ball valve with a 3/4" by 1/2" inch bushing.

I'm going into this much plumbing detail so that if any of you see that I'm making a mistake, you can head me off.

Here's one of the things that's distracted me from the bus this summer. It's banjo rim lathe that I built for Warren Wilson College. It's mounted to a piece of 5/8" inch steel plate that weighs slightly less than the anchor for a battleship. It's stable and does beautiful work.

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I put new starting batteries in the bus today. New batteries always get me excited:

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That's all for now, but I'm wide open on the bus these days. Should have more to report soon:
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

I've posted a solar battery wiring question in the alternative power section. If you know about wiring battery banks, please check that out because I need help.
rlaggren
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by rlaggren »

> plumbing

I think I'd put the "first" valve, the main service valve that cuts off water to the whole shebang, immediately after the exterior hose connector, not after the Pressure Reducing Valve. Use as few valves as possible - save space, reduce complexity. You don't need service shut-offs on a tiny system like this; the valve for the tank fill looks like you need it. Try to install with one end or the other moveable so it will be easy (possible?) to change out filters, PRV's etc.; presumably that would NOT be the exterior connection... Put the hot water shutoff valve at the HWH - that's where it will be needed and people will look for it.

If you want to use that filter to filter water coming _out_ of the tank it'll take more creativity. Personally if I wanted that I might install another filter. Not sure how much pressure drop that filter will introduce; your fresh water pump might have opinions about that...

Depending where you install stuff, you might want to incorporate drainage cocks... Or not. Air pressure does a pretty good job of getting water out of the system. When needed.

Rufus
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Hello Rufus,

I appreciate your input. I am planning a second filter downstream of the fresh tank. We often find terrible water while traveling. I considered running two filters in series on the main input line (sediment first then carbon) in addition to a carbon filter after the holding tank, but I'm not taking that route yet. The third valve in my manifold is for "pumped" water from the tank coming into the house system, and that line will be filtered separately. In our old bus, I dinked around with "RV" filters and fittings until I got sick of them. Everything here is the real deal. I don't have a good place for a ball valve before the check valve/reducer, and I can always turn off the water at the outside supply valve. Do you have some particular reason for wanting a shutoff in that segment? I'd love to know more. The manifold lets me quickly change from shore to house water and/or fill the fresh tank from one spot.

I'm working on plumbing today, and I hope to have more photos tonight.

Jim in NC
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

I pulled the trigger too soon on my last post. I'm actually not planning to put a carbon filter downstream of the holding tank. That was an earlier thought. We're now looking into reverse osmosis filters, and I won't decide final filter setup until I know more about those. Any input here?

Also, do any of you have LED light recommendations? Looks like the prices have come down, and it won't be long before I have to make some lighting choices. All lights will be 24v DC.

Jim
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

I've done a lot of thinking about plumbing these past two days. Here's the result:

First, I decided to move the supply manifold from under to the kitchen sink to the back wall of the port-side closet. It's just in front of the rear wheel well, and that puts it just behind the back wall of the shower. Space looks like this:

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At Rudy's suggestion, I moved the shore water shutoff to the upstream side of the check valve/pressure reducer and cinched everything together with 3/4" brass nipples:

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I will add about three more circuits to the manifold in its final form.

I then made a couple of simple brackets to mount the assembly to the wall:

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And this is what it looks like in place:

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I'm pleased so far. The shore water line has a good line to come up through the floor, it has plenty of flexibility and it will be more accessible than under the sink. The smaller hot supply manifold will mount above this one.

I had a treat on Tuesday when my friend Jason came by for a couple of hours to help with the door surround. He's a pro welder. We would have gotten the top panel on, too, but the moron cutting panels read his tape wrong, and we ended up with a piece of 18g cold rolled sheet that was eight inches too short:

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That's it for now. I may have more to post tonight, but by that time of day I'm usually brain dead and exhausted. Not a good time to be assaulted by the stream of commercials on Tinypic. We quit watching TV 34 years ago, and I have a low tolerance for Madison Ave BS.

Everyone be well and do good work.

Jim in NC

P.S. This is a big day for our instrument building business. I just placed an initial wholesale order with the world's largest maker of professional banjo parts in the Czech Republic. I'm much poorer, but those parts will make money as soon as I get them.
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

Sorry Rufus. In my haste to post I got your name wrong. It was Rufus who suggested moving the valve.
ol trunt
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by ol trunt »

Hey Jim. Like you I havent watched TV in many years--too many good books for that! When it comes to the moron part I'm usually my own moron. I can measure something ten times and get the same dimensions each time and STILL cut it wrong :banghead:
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

As I expected, Jack, you figured the moron on this end. I read and wrote down 40-9/16, but it was actually 48-9/16. I have more steel, but we didn't have more time that day. In my defense, I was standing on a ladder and bending at a difficult angle, but sheeeesh! Jason's coming back next Tuesday, and we should finish that project plus a raised platform in the front of the bus for the passenger seats. His help is the first of any sort that I've had on this build. I'm not opposed to help, but it's hard to find.

Jim in NC
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by rlaggren »

> 8" short...

Hmm. A real pro welder _might_ be able to fill that gap... But it'd take time and beer. <GG>

Your plumbing tree looks great. I like the service (main shut off) valve as close to the place where water enters as possible (as long as it's accessible) because it's your emergency shut-off and you want that to SHUT OFF as much as possible, just in case. Depending what shore side supply you use, you own valve may work quicker than getting out and dealing with the hose bib outside - or not. Just a personal preference.

Might want to label your manifold valves - if you're like me anyway. I can forget the most obvious things w/in a couple minutes... Mount the manifold really well and maybe include a strap around the filter "bowl"(s). Seems I recall those filter connections can't be tightened really well because the plastic would crack; they then get looser and looser over time as the bowls move slightly.

Anybody can see you're having fund there, though.

Cheers

Rufus
Mark R. Obtinario
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

Any particular reason why 24-volt lighting?

In my experience the 24-volt lights don't light any better than the 12-volt.

In addition you pay more than double the price of the 12-volt for the 24-volt.

You also run into the problem of availability. 12-volt bulbs, even 12-volt LED bulbs are available just about anywhere whereas the 24-volt are not available in most places.

For that matter, why are you messing around with anything 24-volt? All of the engine and transmission management systems are 12-volt. Which leaves the only stuff that would still be 24-volt in your bus the headlights, stop and turn signal lights, tail lights, and clearance lights. With everything else you are doing why not change that wiring and get rid of all of the 24-volt stuff.

Just my $0.02 worth.
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Lostranger
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Re: Different Wisdom

Post by Lostranger »

I'm amazed at how little I have to show for all the time and effort I've put into the bus over the past week. I've had to spend a good bit of time getting ready for the banjo building class I start teaching tomorrow at Warren Wilson College, but Sophia has gotten her share of my best effort. I'm always slow, but this week's results seem ridiculous.

I have a list of essential improvements before we can move in. That list has to be mostly complete on or near October 1. One of the items reads: Insulate and panel inside rear bulkhead. Simple, right? Knock that out in an afternoon. I'm so naive. The wall in question looked like this when I started:

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The two vertical wooden strips are 5/4x3 because I was planning to use 1" polyiso board in this area. For several reasons, including the fact that I would have to order a relatively large quantity of 1" foam and wait a week or more for it, I decided to use 1-1/2" insulation that I already had. I liked the decision immediately because it meant a little more sound deadening between the bedroom and the generator. Ripping 5/4x6 decking in half had worked well to generate the 1" thick furring, so I figured ripping 2x6 pine planks would work well for 1-1/2" inch furring. I even found several 2x6s on hand to recycle. The horizontal strip near the bottom of that first photo is a start at the thicker furring.

Right away I ran into issues with drilling into the stainless steel bulkhead. I needed 1/8" holes for the screws I'm using, and I think I've broken eight new cobalt bits in the past few days. Without warning, they just snap. This is tough SS, and even when the bits don't break, it takes a long time to drill each hole. That's been the most frustrating part of this phase. I finally got up enough furring to make a difference in the upper bulkhead, and it looked like this:

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Sorry the photo is out of focus. The original vertical furring is now 1-1/2" thick. I couldn't take it down because corresponding strips on the outside of the bulkhead screw into them. The cure was resawing some of my strips. The table saw is a long walk from where the bus is parked. More time. :banghead:

Here's the upper portion with insulation in place:

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And here with most of a sheet of 3/8" BC in place. The walls taper, and the ceiling is arched. It was fun to cut. This will all be covered eventually, but it will do for a wall in the meanwhile:

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I thought I had the worst behind me, but I was wrong. The lower part of the bulkhead, which includes a shelf that originally held the back seat of the bus, is made of even thicker and tougher stainless steel. Arrrrg! And of course I have to leave a way to access the mechanical port in the middle of this shelf.

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The pictures do not convey the anguish. And I'm not done. The rest should not take much time. (How many times have I told myself that lie!)

Incidentally here is what four banjo neck blanks look like when they've been cut from magnificent, old, twelve-quarter walnut that a new friend dragged out of his private stock to sell me. These will be two five strings, a tenor and a banjeaurine, and I will lavish them with care, attention and expensive parts. Hope to have the matched collector's set finished by about this time next year:

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The piece at the bottom is a new stand I'm making for cutting mother of pearl for inlays.

And Mark, always good to have your input. As it turns out, about the only 12v devices on my bus are the running lights. Engine and transmission management are 24v. The bus gets its 12v from a Vanner battery equalizer, but I only leave the bus system switched on when we're running the engine.

The 24v lights I'm looking for are part of the solar powered house system. I never seriously considered building a 12v solar system, but I did debate between 24v and 48v. My Samsung 255w panels are 24v, and My Magnum 4024 inverter is 24v. The higher voltage has much lower line loss than 12v. The refrigerator we're buying will run on 12 or 24, but we'll use 24. We will only have a few uses for 12v, and it turns out that one 12v panel will work well as a raised shield over the hole in the roof where the original air handler used to have its intake. A panel there will keep my generator dry and still allow hot air from the generator and water heater to escape.

That seems like enough for now. Not sure how much I'll get done this week with the class in full swing, but I'm onto plumbing ASAP.

Best to all.

Jim
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