insulation

[INTNLBlueBird36]

Bottom Line, Can anyone advocate for the ass busting work to insulate the (interior) roof of a school bus vs the alternative?

I am in the very early stages of the conversion (1986 BB Intl 36' Ford)
I have seen a few videos regarding insulating the roof.
I want to insulate the roof however I am not sure I want to take the current roof down or ultimately change its appearance.
I also plan to weld cages to the roof for a cargo deck, and to mount solar panels. Do you think the clearance between the original roof and whatever mounts i weld, will provide enough "insulation" to prevent extreme heat?

I honestly have not spent a lot of time in the bus but i have become familiar with the heat of the day inside. I live in colorado, however, I plan to travel all over the US in this bus and don't want to regret Ga. for not properly insulating.

[ol trunt]

Hello and welcome!------that being said, I presume the "alternative" you mean is freezing your arse in the winter and broiling your brain in the summer. These big tin cans develop a huge heat load in the sun and give up their heat readily in the cold. Even with 2" of closed cell insulation in the roof of my bus, it is difficult to maintain an interior temperature much different than 15 degrees F between the inside and outside temp. Most school buses have a layer of fiberglass insulation in the roof which helps prevent condensation on the interior roof panels but does little else. At a minimum I would recommend spray foam or closed cell foam no less than 2" in thickness top, sides and bottom along with "E" coated dual pane windows. I'd also recommend a glossy bright white paint on the top of the roof.

Pick up an infrared heat gun (about $35) and make some test measurements under a piece of metal whose surface is facing the sun. Then repeat the process but with a couple of inched of closed cell foam beneath the metal. An old cookie sheet is good for this. Hope this helps. Jack

[Stealth Camper]

I second what he said. And I would take it one step further - put in some ribs to make the insulation in the roof even thicker.

The spray foam people have a closed cell foam that is fire rated, which is what I plan to use on my bus. At least 2, but would like to go 4". Way more bang for the buck with the foam - about R-6 per inch. Will also help with moisture control - depending on heat load, the distance from outside where condensation occurs seems to be any where from 0 to 2" -ish from outside.

Magazine called Fine Homebuilding did an article about foam and the condensation point a few years ago. It was for conventional house but has to be similar. May be worse with metal skin....

I have been living full time in an rv for 10 years now and the tin can effect is real and makes for serious misery in extremes of heat or cold. We get 110 deg here and the temp inside gets up to 85 or more with a/c running full out. I have been in the thing during a couple of winters when we got to -10 one year and had a -18 another year! I plan to rebuild the rv when I get into a house so can use for just camping, and when I do, it will be VERY well insulated - ALL sides!! And NO single pane rv windows either - they have little slots built in to allow condensation to get out and fresh air to get in. Mine are about 1/8" by 1/2" slots - two per window. Makes a nice little breeze at -10 and 35 mph wind!!

Get your basement fully enclosed around the tanks, too!! You don't want a frozen black water tank...ever!! Nu-Wa is not building RV's anymore, but they have some good videos about how they used to make them. Some very good information there that can adapt to bus!

And WELCOME !! Always good to have a new face around the place!!

[ol trunt]

I forgot to mention another important issue (hang around, we will tell you how to do it!?!). Just kidding, make sure what ever is presently acting as insulation in your roof right now is nowhere around when you weld on the various support brackets. A fire between roof layers will make short order of your bus--don't give it a chance.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, if there aren't pics--it didn't happen . Jack

[ol trunt]

Hey SC, can you give me more info on the now defunct Nu-wa ? Thanks,Jack

[Stealth Camper]

Hey SC, can you give me more info on the now defunct Nu-wa ? Thanks,Jack

Better than that....their web site is still there. And they are kind of in business, just not building 5th wheels anymore - service and sales. And you just opened up a can of worms with that little question - I tend to get long winded on topics that interest me. So, here is a short detour down the rabbit hole...may need to do a post with pics...I just reviewed some pics I have, bringing it all back to me last week!!

I lived in a 1997 Kit Sportsmaster for the first 7 years - don't hold me too close to these times...I may be months to 1 year off on the time frame. Raggedy-a$$ POS, but keeps MOST of the rain off my head...well, except for the leaks...

One day, my sister bought a used NuWa Hitchhiker on my recommendation, lived in it for almost a year, didn't want to do that full time, so rented it to me. I moved in I think in early 2014 - maybe late 2013 - went through a few months winter then into summer, next winter, then on up to May 6, 2015. That day was an adventure - we had our typical huge thunderstorms and I was out storm chasing....and being chased!! About 8:00 that evening, I had been running around a few hours and the last big storm of the day just blew up out of no where. Came rolling across the RV park, destroying a hotel next door, a mini-storage, and all 68 trailers in the park. I was on my way back and when I got there it looked like one of the night scenes from Apocalypse Now. 19 people went to hospital. 6 critical. All survived and several of them are back at the park now. I wasn't hurt, and I am back there. Oh,...and this unit had slideouts - I hate slideouts - just like sunroof in a car, they are a built in leak. Always.

So, I had to get back into the Sportsmaster again...geez - RV manufacturing in this country is a horrible mess! And it ain't getting much better! Finally, getting back to NuWa - the trailer had a small previous owner modification in the generator compartment that created a 2" x 20" gap to the outside that brought cold air in the first winter. "Fixed" it with a bath towel under the cabinet in the bedroom where it entered the room. Fixed it for real in the spring. Next winter was snug and cozy!

They are really good trailers. If I could find a good used one I could afford, I would buy it in a second. Others just as good - Excel, late model. Teton. Doubletree seems to be pretty good - one of my neighbors was in one and it was totaled, but really held together well during the storm. Like anything, ya gotta check it out. Or have someone who knows them check it out. I still want my bus converted, though!!

They used the blue Dow closed cell insulation. When bonded to the outside it formed a structural element, along with the frame. Was NOT the white styrofoam stuff!! Much better. I was skeptical, so made my own little wall cross section just to see how it worked. Used 1/2" blue dow - they used 2" - and 1/8" plywood. Made a piece 2' x 2'. Put it through some weight tests - laying stuff on it - couple of inches of two opposite sides supported on concrete blocks. My 215 lbs didn't break it, but deflected maybe 1/4". I found that astounding. Then I started jumping on it, and after about a half dozen jumps as high as I could, it cracked. Still held me up off the floor. Blue Dow is great stuff.

They made nicely finished units, but they are not the high gloss, granite encrusted high end, half million dollar type thing. Much better than anything made by Fleetwood or Forest River. Pilgrim International makes Open Road - run away!! Horrible piece of garbage!!

On the topic of RV's in general - here is a guy who understands perfectly! The industry has an amazing array of problems, and while there are some companies that are trying to address them, most are still in the mode that the only thing that counts is getting the units out the door. No matter what. I think there is a market opportunity there, but it would take a lot to get started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP_u2JR51_Y


There used to be some good manufacturing videos on , but it looks like they took them down. I just sent an email complaining about that!

http://www.nuwa.com/

All right...enough for now, I guess. Hope this answered maybe at least one or two questions for you...

[Stealth Camper]

This is what happens when a tornado hits. Not mine - this one was across the driveway and two spaces down from me. The floor/frame with toilet is all that's left. The one behind it was destroyed, too, just not as completely.

[INTNLBlueBird36]

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.

I guess Ill have to start popping rivets.

Im excited to work on the bus. I am getting out of the Army in the next year and love the project therapy!

[Stealth Camper]

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.

I guess Ill have to start popping rivets.

Im excited to work on the bus. I am getting out of the Army in the next year and love the project therapy!

Popping rivets - just to be clear...I presume you are talking about removing the inside skin. When I took the inside ceiling out of part of my bus, I found that inch or so of fiberglass that Jack talked about. Just be careful with the dust - wear your PPE !! That stuff can lead to some very serious problems.

And PICS!! We need pics...!