Music Central

splummer · Post by **splummer** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:35 pm

gee leo k or molley h ,have to say leo, sounds like a rowdy bunch there rudy lol just watched an old ,rare video , forgot the title opened with a day in the life, had donovan there also did not relize this but , we know it was written by paul m when was it written, i was surprised

Post by **stuartcnz** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:12 pm

Rudy wrote:That is a LOT of weight, and a LOT of music. Vinyl albums still sound the greatest.

Yes vinyl does sound best. does anyone know why vinyl sounds better than CD's?
If no one answers, I will elaborate in a couple of days.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:22 pm

Stuart, My guess as to why vinyl sounds better is because of the vibration of the phonograph needle being directly translated to the playback system. Rudy

splummer · Post by **splummer** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:19 pm

the reason is that the original wasrecorded on analog eqipment prior to modern noise reduction tech.

Post by **TMAX** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:43 pm

Analog vinyl recordings have overtones (harmonics) on them that we cannot consciously hear but we do perceive them. It gives the recording a sound stage or a depth that makes it sound as if you are there (the recording has to be a good one for this to take place). Digital recordings are for the most part, cut abruptly at 20 kilohertz or so giving them a clean but sterile sound.

TMAX

Post by **Sharkey** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:11 pm

My opinion is that there is no "better" sounding medium for storage and playback of music, it's all a matter of what type of distortion the listener prefers.

Digital recordings deliver the most accurate reproduction of a performance with the caveat that very subtile nuances of the wave forms are lost or modified.

Analog recordings are typically described as "warm" sounding., but they introduce extraneous artifacts in the form of tape hiss, rumble, high frequency distortion, etc. The very act of RIAA or NAB equalization is a train wreck of intermodulation distortion just waiting to happen.

After switching exclusively to CD's, I went back some years ago and dug out some of my favorite vinyl LP's. I expected that I'd hear some rumble, and pops and clicks, but felt I could deal with it, the recording were all cared for ~very~ meticulously when I used them back in the day.

What I couldn't abide, and which drove me nuts was the amount of heavy processing that had been applied to the audio during the mastering procedure in the form of fast limiting. Volume peaks in the music, vocals that should soar up and reach for heaven ended up being smashed against an artificial ceiling of limiting, which was necessarily imposed because without it, the grooves in the record would overlap, causing no end of skipping. The dynamic range of analog recording techniques is absolutely the medium's worst enemy. Digital may sound cold and sterile to some, but at least it has a respectable dynamic range, free from a high noise floor.

Having said that, there are a lot of ~very bad~ digital storage and transmission formats that would be best hammered out of existence. mp3's sound like cats fighting to me. They might be OK for use in a moving vehicle or when the listener isn't really paying attention to the music, but the amount of digital artifacts and losses of "inaudible" sound is unacceptable.

I listened to some XM/Sirius satellite radio on a high end system some time back, the sound quality was AWFUL!!! The algorithms that are used to compress the audio are supposed to take out parts of the music that "humans can't perceive" or which is masked by louder sounds, but that is BS. Even the classical stations were compressed and limited far beyond anything that I found comfortable to listen to. The lower frequency instruments all sounded the same, it was difficult to tell the difference between a bass guitar and a kick drum in extreme cases, they both just sounded like a "thump".

When I began archiving my old analog recordings (LP, cassette, reel>reel), I chose to use FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) format to save the audio files to archive data. While smaller than an uncompressed .wav file, they are light years better sounding than any of the other compressed audio storage formats.

Yes, I'll be sticking with digital. I can't hear anything much higher than 10kHz anymore anyway, so I have built-in anti-aliasing!!

Post by **stuartcnz** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:37 am

Okay, both Tmax and Sharkey have got it covered. Basically CD's tend to sound sterile because the have an absolute frequency cut off, which although outside normal human hearing range, is perceivable.

I have heard of CD players being built with tubes instead of transistors to compensate, as tubes produce even order harmonic distortion which sounds warm to the ear, as opposed to the brash sounding odd order harmonics thrown out by transistors when over driven.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:22 am

Stuart, Quite a few years ago, a company came out with the BBE Sonic Maximizer. I believe that it is a device sometimes known as an aural exciter. They are supposed to emulate the even harmonics of a tube amp. The circuit works well. Over twenty years ago, Fender made guitar amps that employed this circuit. Those amps had the red volume knobs. They sounded amazingly like a tube amp. Perhaps that circuitry should be built in to CD players.

I have an aural exciter built into my SWR California Blonde amp. It sounds really good. I'll take pictures of the amp and post them. Rudy

Post by **stuartcnz** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:35 am

Rudy,
I also have an aural exiter on my SWR Workingmans 160 amp and have used the BBE sonic maximizer in a studio. They are amazing units, in what they do for the sound on a bass. I had no idea of how they worked.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:37 am

This appeared originally on the Rubber Tramp's song post.

Steve, Since this conversation is centered around Arlo Guthrie, I have to divulge just a little information about my past. For many years I played a lot of gigs. I opened up for many famous people. Even though my friend Howard wants me to divulge my illustrious career as a performer, I will only tell you about this one fun gig now. Arlo Guthrie was scheduled to play at this club in California. The capacity of the club was 960 people. I was hired to open up for him. I always got to my shows early.
So, I load my equipment in and set it up. At that time I was playing six and twelve string acoustic guitar with fingerpicks and using a bottleneck slide. While I was setting up, I noticed a big bowl of fruit on a table on the stage.
The only picture of Arlo Guthrie that I had in my mind was from an album from twenty years prior.
So, while I am setting up, a guy with long grey hair and beard comes on stage and asks me if I would like some fruit. Well, I, at first, did not realize who this person was. Suddenly, it dawned on me that it was Arlo Guthrie. In answer to his question, I said sure, I would like some fruit. So I picked some apples and oranges. I then looked at him and said, "I didn't know it was you."
I was so impressed by how friendly he was. He was excited about my guitar playing as well.
I have lots of stories about that time in my life. I will post them on Music Central. There is one about Doc Watson that will make you cry. It makes me cry when I think back on it.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:15 pm

Here are some pics of my multi-use amplifier. It is an early model of the SWR California Blonde. The later models had square slots in the grille as opposed to the diamond shape ones on this grille. It is 100 watts. It has a closed back cabinet that houses a 200 watt Celestion 12 inch speaker and a high frequency tweeter. It is ported in the front at the bottom of the amp. It has two separate channels, one of which has an XLR input for a microphone. It has good EQ, and also employs an aural exciter on one of the channels. It has an effects loop in the back as well as a line out jack. I have used this amp for guitar, keyboards, bass, and vocals. It has performed wonderfully for all of these applications. I like to think of it as a mini PA. As an all around amp, it is the best thing I have heard.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:49 pm

For thirty years, I have been collecting adapters for various audio applications. If somebody says "hook me up", chances are I will be able to do it. I've got adapters that go back to the 50's. Here is the case I keep them in. There are over 200 of them. It took several pictures to show them all. Here they are.

dburt · Post by **dburt** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:44 pm

Wow, an audophile's dream cache!

Post by **TMAX** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:54 pm

Don't know where else to put this one. Just got back from one of our regular hangouts and someone put John Lennon on the juke. It made me feel melancholy and caused tears to roll from my eyes. It has been 29 years. I miss him still. It is so unfair.

Tom

splummer · Post by **splummer** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:17 am

lennon is one of my favorites, wonder what he would be doing today musiclly

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