HDTV

For anything that doesn't fit the other forums.

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Phil Beckman
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HDTV

Post by Phil Beckman »

A good site for antennas is www.solidsignal.com .
This whole DTV thing is annoying and has resulted in the degradation of TV. Locally, all but two of the stations signed off their analog transmitters on 2/17. Now, those on cable get to enjoy the local affiliates' lack of lip sync, or in the case of the public station, truly bizarre pictures due to strange aspect ratios. I'm an "OTA" (over the air) guy because I need to keep an eye on several LPTV stations, and while my converter boxes seem to work well, the stations don't have DTV figured out yet.
Geez....
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hi Phil, to me what it looks like your experiencing is your local stations have mismatched equipment and / or employee training issues. As far as LPTV goes in my area, we have 2 stations, one is Hispanic religious and the other is home shopping related. Both are analog and will probably stay that way after the transition. Doesn't matter much to me as I don't watch either one of them.

Thank you for the information on solid signal.

TMAX
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Well folks my new Winegard antenna arrived late last week and I've been giving it a spin. It is their bottom of the line model HD-1080 (VHF high / UHF). This is a rather small (18" tall by 34" wide) vertically mounted outdoor type antenna. It has 2 active elements in front and 5 reflective elements in back. It looks somewhat like the old 4 bay bowtie UHF antenna, only it has 2 bays and is wider.

As far as reception goes, it does a great job on UHF analog and digital (even better than my present outdoor antenna). On VHF high, it doesn't do that great so far (I'm using it indoors for the time being). That should change with outdoor installation, 12 to 15 feet higher up than my office window. This antenna will wind up at my father-in-laws for his one television set.

For my needs, I'll need something a bit stronger as well as a new antenna to splitter cable (RG-6 quad shield) as well as a new splitter (we have 3 TVs). The old splitter is a 1 to 10 and I'm going to change to a 1 to 4.

Still haven't decided on which antenna except that it will be overkill. The reason for this is we have a new affiliate station that I really enjoy. It is called White Springs TV (out of Florida). They show really neat old movies (mostly 30s and 40s), soundies (early music videos), and early politically incorrect cartoons. All without commercial interruption. Problem is this station is flea powered (VHF high digital low power) and to receive it properly, I'll need something with a lot of gain. More later..

TMAX
Last edited by TMAX on Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

I am going to be really interested in what you discover in regards to antenna choices.

Since I am at the ragged edge of both the Seattle and Portland market reception area, whatever I do it is going to have to be able to receive relatively weak signals.

The fact Congress pushed back the implementation date is rather vexing. I was hoping to have all of the local digital stations broadcasting on their permanent channels so I could determine which antenna I was going to need.

Unless and until that happens, I am thinking anything I do will be premature.
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hi Mark, you might want to check with www.antennaweb.org as they may list both the pre and post transition frequencys for your area. They upgraded their list for my area sometime in late February.

I can't recall where I read it but one of the reasons for the push out for the transition date is antenna issues. It stated that approximately 10% over the air receivers will have problems. I think the number will be quite a bit higher. If you have to go up on your roof for antenna work, better in May or June than February.

TMAX
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hi folks, a little brain scratcher about television And other subjects. http://discovermagazine.com/2009/feb/16 ... television
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hello everybody, I know it has been quite some time since I last chimed in. My new antenna arrived about two weeks ago (it was back ordered). My PC came down with a nasty case of H1N1 swine flu where I was forced to perform a brain-dectomy, re-install all operating systems (care of Dell mailed CDs) and bring windows XP (xtra problems) up from scratch. Fun and lots of it.

To the important stuff.. Since the antennas arrival, I have gotten the cable from the antenna and the splitter upgraded. The new cable is RG6 quad shield and the splitter is a General Electric part number AV22694 four way splitter. These items are the hard part of this upgrade since they required my presence in the crawlspace under my house (spiders and earwigs and ants, oh my!!). As well, these items have made the most dramatic improvement in the reception for my television sets. I now get nearly all our locally available digital TV channels and they come in strong. I almost regret buying a new antenna except I know that when the weather turns cold and wet, the present antenna will fall short. I feel that the greatest improvement is from changing the splitter. The old one was a 1 to 8 splitter (I was wrong it wasn't a 1 to 10) with 10db of loss to each leg. The major loss was not with the number of legs as much as with the general design of the old unit. Seems like anything over channel 56 travelling through it suffered horrid attenuation (signal loss). That is why I wasn't able to get digital channels 2.1 (channel 60.1 UHF), 11.1 (channel 65.3 UHF), 13.1 (channel 66.3 UHF), or 28.1 (channel 59.1 UHF). Any digital channel below 56 came in "ok". I still get weak (but better than it was) reception on channels 8.1 and 8.2 (White Springs TV), but that is to be expected. I found out that they broadcast with an effective radiated power of 300 watts (low power analog stations average 3000 watts). Hopefully, White Springs will improve with the installation of the new antenna.

About the cable, the new quad shield looks just like the old regular RG6 it has replaced. It is smaller in diameter than RG6 quad shield from a couple of years ago and to boot, quad shield is no longer printed on the cable insulation. The only indicator is a paper label in the cable reel itself (it is quad shield though, I stripped it down to make sure).

I'll be writing in in about a week or so when the new antenna is in place.

Any questions, please let me know.

TMAX
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hello and I'm back. It has been about a week since the installation of my new antenna (Winegard model HD7697P). This is their second to the top of the line model VHF high/UHF antenna. Cost with shipping to the Los Angeles area, about $150.

I did encounter some difficulty after assembly. I checked the antenna with an ohm meter and it showed a dead short on the VHF section (later, I found out the antenna was designed that way, what appears to be a short at DC, is not necessarily so at 170 megahertz on up).

Still, I was skeptical and so I rigged up a test mount using a concrete patio umbrella base and an old pool brush handle for the mast. The antenna worked well on all local stations (VHF high/UHF), both analog and digital (worked marginally for analog stations 2 thru 6, VHF low).

The antenna is now on the roof and I must say, it looks impressive (it's over eleven feet in length). I just wish it would work as good as it looks. I get a strong and steady signal on all my local digital stations (except one). They bring my TV set's strength meter between 80 to 94+db (off scale). The one channel that doesn't cut it is White Springs (channel 8.2). It gets the meter to about 16 to 23 except when a plane comes into land at LAX (their flight path is about 6 to 8 miles north of me), then I lose signal completely. The new antenna works only slightly better than the old one. I know the old one needed replacing, but knowing what I know now, I would have gone with a lesser expensive (and less difficult to install) model. As far as not getting good reception for White Springs goes, I think I'll just have to live with it, they are only 300 watts. Maybe they will be able to increase their power sometime down the road.

TMAX
Sharkey
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Post by Sharkey »

Have you considered increasing the power at your end? I mean installing an RF preamplifier at the antenna, before any feedline losses. I had a problem with the AM station's 950 MHz studio-to-transmitter link at the new site. I was only getting a -17 db signal, marginal at the best of times. In spite fo being told by "someone who knows" that a preamplifier would raise the noise floor as well as the desired signal, resulting in no improvement, I installed a 15 db preamp after the feedline and am now enjoying fade-free reception. Even a few db would make your station better, although nothing short of diversity (mulitple) antennas will solve your image probem with the aircraft.

Ever thought about trying horizontal or diagonal polarization? The problem you are having with aircraft is a form of multipath, and probably a lot of that is due to the fact that you are receiving horizontal only, the plane is scrambling the phase of the signal into many polarizations. Switching to Vpol or diagal might gain you something. So also might be using the smaller antenna Vpol and combining it via splitter with the big antenna running Hpol. Best of both worlds, circular polarization with a bias toward Hpol (higher gain antenna).
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

I have had a good thing happen recently. As of 1, June reception for channel 8.2 (White Springs TV) improved considerably. I checked the signal strength and it had gone from an average of 16 to 22db to 27 to 32db and sometimes hitting peaks of 38db. The s/n ratio has changed from an average of 16db to 20db. Now there is very rare pixellation and no more drop outs. I was able to enjoy (commercial free) 1937's Storm in a Teacup with Rex Harrison and Vivian Leigh. Since I didn't do anything from my end for this improvement, I was curious. I looked on the internet and found out that channel 8 digital (8.1, 8.2, 8.4, and 8.5) had antenna issues. Apparently they have had a request on file with the FCC for an antenna design change, looks like they got it. I found an FCC radiation map for channel 8 and there was a problem with their pattern. There was a null fairly close to me extending into Orange County. Looks as though they got it taken care of. The signal is still the lowest powered that I receive, but what the heck, it's digital. I don't know if there is any interest or not, but White Springs maintains a free to air ku band satellite channel, just check out White Springs TV on the net. Or If with any luck, there may be an over the air affiliate close to a readers area.


TV Dazed and Enjoying It

TMAX
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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HDTV

Post by TMAX »

Hello, just came across this while looking at various articles pertaining to digital television. It's loaded with information. I wish I had come across it sooner. http://tvfool.com/

TMAX
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

Well, fast forward several months and the digital change has changed our television watchin habits.

Before the switch we were able to watch ABC, CBS, and one PBS station.

Now, after the switch we are no longer able to watch ABC, and CBS. We are now able to watch NBC, two different PBS stations with four channels each, one Fox digital station and two analog independent stations.

Of course, my wife wants to watch ABC and CBS.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Mark O.
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hi Mark, gee, I thought that the transition went smooth since no one posted since the 12 June date. For the most part, the transition has been an improvement at least here in the Los Angeles area. I watched a lot of TV that day and as the analog signals ended, their digital counterparts seemed to improve in strength and quality. The most notable improvement that I saw was with channel 8.2 at the moment channel 9 analog bit the dust (13:10 local time). What started out as a very weak signal (kind of like a far away short wave station), 8.1 and 8.2 come in strong and steady now.

As far as your situation goes, I'll check on general reception for your area
and get back to you in the next few days. I'll need your postal zip code.
Take care

TMAX
TMAX
Officer Hormel
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Post by TMAX »

Hi Mark, no need to send your postal zip, I found it.

Seems to be that the only station listed as available for your area is KCKA, channel 19.1 in Tacoma. Although only about 8 miles from Winlock, a deep fringe type antenna with an amplifier is recommended. I don't understand this unless maybe there are lots of obstacles between you and the station transmitter. I'm about 23 miles from all my local station transmitters and all come in strong, even with a modest antenna.

A possibility might be if you live in a rural area, your postal zip covers many square miles. You might want to send me your street address for a more accurate report. My email is webbsight@msn.com . Or you can just input your information directly into www.antennaweb.org .

If none of this works for you, you may want to look into FTA (free to air satellite TV service). Just be careful as many providers out there sell equipment designed to steal pay TV service as well as the legitimate sellers.

Hope this helps

TMAX
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

Well, $250.00 later I am no better off than I was before.

Regardless of what antennaweb may say, even with the fanciest ChannelMaster antenna and largest booster ChannelMaster has available the ABC and CBS stations won't come in reliably.

Back before digital if a station didn't come in so very well you could live with a little snow. With digital, if you get snow you get nothing. And right in the middle of one of my wife's shows is not the time for a show to go offline.

As a consequence, we had Dish Network put up a mini-dish yesterday afternoon.

The only problem I see is the same problem I had with the cable company many years ago. You start out at one price and before you know it the price doubles. And even though the dish has been up less than 24-hours the price has already started to go up.

I am so glad the government knows better than the marketplace as to what is the best broadcasting format. :x

Now I have a choice of I don't know how many channels but I doubt most of it I really want in my house.

Oh well, at least the wife can now watch her shows and I don't have to hear her complain about trying to watch her shows online.
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