biodiesel

Alternative Fuels of all sorts, Biodiesel, Electric, Human Power, Steam, etc.

Moderator: TMAX

Post Reply
User avatar
dadeo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:03 pm
Location: detroit
Contact:

biodiesel

Post by dadeo »

my friends are in the process of converting a Mercedes diesel to run on biodiesel. One question they had was: is there a way to avoid the need to preheat the fuel?? they live in California, so they shouldnt be experiencing the sub-freezing temperatures like we have in MI. Some ideas seem to be mixing in diesel fuel or alcohol. anyway, if you have any suggestions, we'd be thankful!!

dadeo
Sharkey
Original Founder
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:00 am
Contact:

Post by Sharkey »

I think you (or your friends) are confusing Biodiesel with SVO/WVO (straight/waste vegetable oil).

Biodiesel has been altered chemically to separate the glycerin molecules (waste) from the esters (fuel). Biodiesel requires no preheating before being used in any diesel engine, it remains a viscous liquid down to 25-30°F or lower.

SVO/WVO still has the glycerin, and solidifies at or near room temperature, necessitating a second, heated fuel sytem. Except in the most temperate climates, the oil must be heated to make it viscous enough to properly operate in diesel engine injection pump and injectors.

Personally, I would ~never~ put SVO/WVO through any of my engines. There are all manner of trans-fatty acids, mono- and triglycerides, water, soaps, minute contaminants in suspension, etc. There also seem to be issues with ash buildup in engines running on SVO/WVO. I guess if they have an old ratty MB that they don't care about, it doesn't matter much what gets put through the engine.

Additionally, I have better things to do with my time than spend it mucking about in nasty grease dumpsters collecting oil, Before being introduced to the fuel tank of the vehicle, it needs to be heated, filtered, and clarifed. Too damn much effort, I'd rather just go out and work and then use the money to purchase some ASTM-certified Biodiesel.

Eventually, when more Biodiesel production facilities are in operation, waste oil will become a valuable commodity, and it's unlikely that it will be free for the taking as it is in many places now. In fact, a whole new industry is beginning where resturants will lease the fryer oil and have to pay for any that is not returned. Grease dumpsters will have locks on them like fuel pumps do now when the station is closed.
LandRoverWullie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:22 am
Location: Scotland, Europe
Contact:

Bio Diesel

Post by LandRoverWullie »

Here in the UK, Biodiesel is allegedly becoming more easily available...
BUT the commercially available fuel is 5% bio and 95% fossil fuel. This will have hardly any effect on global CO2 emissions.
In my "humble" opinion this is a classic case of government (and probably the oil companies) pretending to do something positive for the poor people of the planet while trying not to lose face with the powerful people (who they think are more important).
So it's down to the small scale producer of Biodiesel for his/her own use, or perhaps small-scale co-operative ventures, to make any real change. Running a vehicle on "pure" biodiesel is infinitely better than on fossil diesel and 20 times better than on "Pump" Biodiesel.
Who knows what would happen to the balance of power in the world if it was the growers of oil seeds who were being courted by users who wanted to change from fossil fuels and not the drillers of oil wells?
Sorry, rant over!
Wullie
User avatar
dadeo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:03 pm
Location: detroit
Contact:

Post by dadeo »

cool, thanks for the input. I gotta check in with my friends and see how its going. maybe ill have an update!

dadeo
Sharkey
Original Founder
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:00 am
Contact:

Post by Sharkey »

commercially available fuel is 5% bio and 95% fossil fuel. This will have hardly any effect on global CO2 emissions
This is true for CO2, but even a 5% blend has dramatic improvements on other emissions such as carbon monoxide, unburned particulates and visible smoke. It's more than worth doing!

It's encouraging that governments are getting involved in incentives for biofuels. Here in the US, a tax incentive has just been put into effect that allows a 1 cent per % of biodiesel blended with petroleum fuel. This is implemented at the distributor level (or whoever actually does the blending). The effect of this is that a B99 blend gets the distributor a $0.99 credit. This has had the effect of lowering biodiesel prices dramatically. B20 is only a few cents more than B0. B100 went from $3.60/gallon to $2.85/gallon (distributors are not passing all of the incentive along to consumers, partly to build some operating capital).

We see biodiesel cutting across political boundaries daily. Conservatives who think that environmental issues are the realm of tree-hugging envio-terrorists will willingly purchase biodiesel when informed that it supports American farmers instead of sending money over to OPEC.

The local VW dealer *loves* biodiesel because environmentally-conscious drivers are buying TDI VW's every week expressly for the purpose of fueling them with biodiesel.

The local forest products distributor (bark dust, compost from shavings, etc) recently went "green", remaking their image to environmentally friendly, and are now fueling their entire diesel fleet with B20. They also just purchased 8 VW Jetta TDI station wagons from the VW dealer for their salesmen to drive, and each is clearly labeled as "powered by biodiesel".

The worm is turning, albeit slowly. Biofuels will make a difference with or without government intervention. Yes, eventually, Big Oil is going to want in. Already ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) is getting it's toe in the water. Of course, it helps that ADM is already the world's largest producer of Methyl Ester (biodiesel), but they make and sell it as an agricultural chemical, not a motor fuel.

Commercial biodiesel distribution and production is going to be the next Microsoft. If you have any available investment capital, I suggest you put some in the industry!
LandRoverWullie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:22 am
Location: Scotland, Europe
Contact:

Biodiesel

Post by LandRoverWullie »

Mr Sharkey,
I apologise for my blinkered view of the issue. (Do you people over there use the word "blinkered"?) : 8)
In my enthusiasm for the Carbon-neutrality of Biodiesel I was forgetting about the other components of exhaust emissions. Of course you're right, :oops: and now that my old Land Rover will be mobile again very soon I won't be so snooty about the pump biodiesel.
As soon as I find some, I'll let you know.
Wullie
LandRoverWullie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:22 am
Location: Scotland, Europe
Contact:

Vegetable Oil Discussion Link to UK site

Post by LandRoverWullie »

Greetings from the Eastern side of the big Atlantic pond,
There's a lot of discussion just now about Biodiesel vs Waste Vegetable Oil in the Land Rover Series 2 Club's forum

http://p222.ezboard.com/bwittsendsystems

Pump price for fossilfuel diesel is nearly £1 a litre (= $6.50 for one of your gallons, I think). That's based on £1 = $1.80. And with our Land Rovers only managing, at best, 18 miles per US gallon, we need to seek out alternatives.

Fuel duty is payable at £0.271 per Litre when we use Veg Oil, Straight or processed Waste.

The biggest problem is our very variable winter climate. Not very cold all the time but sometimes the extremes are very annoying, so fuel warming is an issue in parts of the UK and not in others.
Gotta go to work.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests