NOMADICISTA

Saw this statement on a 1988 Crown bus auction statement..

"The bus CANNOT be registered in California.."

and the reason is...?

Mike

Probably doesn't meet required emissions specs...just a guess.

guess it would just have to be retro-fitted..How can the school district operate any of these buses currently, I wonder..

California passes toughest diesel emissions standards in U.S.
December 12, 2008

The California Air Resources Board did pass the diesel emissions standards on Friday. The standards will be the toughest in the nation and will require extensive retrofitting of heavy diesel trucks and buses. Some older models will have to be phased out entirely.
Around a million trucks and buses will be retrofitted or replaced. Retrofits will require smog filters or cleaner engine technology beginning in 2011. By 2014, all trucks and buses must have soot filters. By 2023, no truck or bus will be allowed to be more than 13 years old unless it has special equipment to cut nitrogen oxide emissions.
This approval comes in the same week that California also passed the most stringent greenhouse gas emissions laws in the nation. Reducing diesel soot emissions will improve human health, air quality, and also fight climate change.

Mike

Yes, and it could also be a bus that was washed out of a California school bus fleet in a big purge set into motion a few years back. School districts were offered a cash payment for purchasing new, emissions-compliant busses. In exchange, the titles had to be turned into Sacramento, where they were basically "black-listed" from ever being registered again.

A lot of these buses were sent out of state or even out of the country (Mexico), and quite a few of them (perfectly operating rolling stock) went to wrecking yards to be parted out. Back then, you could buy a late-model, 40' tandem-axle Crown, with new rubber, fully certified for fleet service (except for the title) for as little as $1,500.

BIG FREAKING WASTE in my opinion.

Sharkey wrote:Yes, and it could also be a bus that was washed out of a California school bus fleet in a big purge set into motion a few years back. School districts were offered a cash payment for purchasing new, emissions-compliant busses. In exchange, the titles had to be turned into Sacramento, where they were basically "black-listed" from ever being registered again.

A lot of these buses were sent out of state or even out of the country (Mexico), and quite a few of them (perfectly operating rolling stock) went to wrecking yards to be parted out. Back then, you could buy a late-model, 40' tandem-axle Crown, with new rubber, fully certified for fleet service (except for the title) for as little as $1,500.

BIG FREAKING WASTE in my opinion.

Yeah, they are still scrapping them too.
A wrecking yard near me handles most of them from southern california. I call the supervisor on a regular basis to try and get parts, he can't even sell engine parts. He told me they crush them pretty fast because they take up so much room and they don't sell many body parts.

They have a pile of Diesel engines that they cut a 6" square hole in the block with a torch.

Pure legislative brilliance. A school district in, say San Diego scraps out a bus. The wrecker gets a salvage title and sells the bus to a bus company in Tijuana, who puts it back on the road, probably without any continuing maintenance, and most likely burning high(er) sulfur fuel (does Mexico use ULSD?). The net effect is nill, the area has just as much, if not more air pollution, the bus dealers get a nice bonus and the politicians have a warm, fuzzy feeling for getting the "polluters" off the road. Nitwits, all.

If you are ever kicking around and find a Crown with a rear bumper curved section, I'm still looking for one to replace mine with the big exhaust pipe cutout in it. Can't spend $$$, but it would save me having to weld up that ugly hole. Would prefer one from the upper right, so it doesn't have "tail drag" scrapes all over the underside.

As of 8:30 A.M., Sunday , the bus had 10 bids totaling 2800.55....

This Crown might go for a lot more. The model number indicates that it has a Detroit 6-71 engine, but with the horsepower listed as 270, this bus might have a turbo. Also they have it listed as a manual 4 speed, but it really has the coveted 10 speed Roadranger. This is a very nice bus.
Here are some pics for Sharkey.









"I'm going to cwush yo baas"

"By 2023, no truck or bus will be allowed to be more than 13 years old unless it has special equipment to cut nitrogen oxide emissions."

can all engines, no matter how old, be retro-fitted with the proper equipment to pass this requirement or will everybody be lining up in 2013 for an engine swap?

Mike

The answer to your question is probably "Yes, but at what cost?"

NoX is scrubbed from internal combustion vehicle exhaust by catalytic converters. Unfortunately, cat converters are "poisoned" by a variety of exhaust pollutants and get "plugged" by the particulates in diesel fuel. In order to have an effective and long-lived CC, you have to remove several chemical additives from the fuel and pretty much eliminate particulates (soot). ULSD is a big step towards the former, and electronic engine management is the solution to the latter.

Diesel engines are inherently lean-burn devices, the air-to-fuel ratio is something like 200:1 at idle and 20:1 at WOT. This produces ~loads~ of NoX. Gas engines have a fairly narrow range of A/F of about 13-14:1. Also a problem is that turbo engines without ECM controls tend to be dirty until the turbo spools up (witness the large diesel trucks belching smoke off the line at a stop light, but the opacity of the exhaust lightening after the engine comes up to full load). Both of these kill CC's.

Also a problem is that diesels have lower EGT's compared to gasoline engines, so keeping a Cat hot enough to not get poisoned and do it's job when the engine is idling for long periods, etc.

The new generation of diesel engines use electronic controls for many aspects of engine control, making tailoring the conditions much easier than old-school mechanical designs.

Now if we could get some stringent regulations on the exhaust emission of rabid legislators, we'd be in business.

I was in a hurry when I posted the the photos, I forgot to post the link.
With 3 days 5 hours left for this auction, the price is up to $4550.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Crown-Co ... QQptZBuses

sold for the last bid of $4550.00 19 bids total..

Mike

tamangel wrote:sold for the last bid of $4550.00 19 bids total..

Mike

I think it was worth every penny too. Was that bus a 40 footer?

"I'm going to cwush yo baas"