Some logistical questions for the old timers

[Mark R. Obtinario]

2-cycle DD's came in three sizes and two flavors available in over the road vehicles.

They came in three sizes, the -53 series, the -71 series, and the -92 series.

The number refers to the cubic inches of each cylinder.

They came in two configurations, inline and 'V' type. If the designator had a 'V' in it the engine was a 'V' configuration. If it didn't it was an inline engine. For instance a 6V-92 was a V-6 with six holes that were 92 cubic inches. Or if it was a 6-71 it was an inline 6 with six holes that were 71 cubic inches.

Adding a 'T' meant it was turbocharged. Adding a TA meant it was turbocharged and aftercooled.

The -53 series tach out at 2750 RPM's and really define the term "screaming Jimmy".

The -71 series is the most common and the -92 series is the newest series. Both the -71 and -92 tach out at 2250 RPM's.

4-cycle DD's came in three common flavors.

The Series 60 was a large 6-cylinder heavy duty diesel engine and came in two sizes, the small one a little less than 12 liters and the big one a llittle more than 12 liters.

The Series 50 was the Series 60 with two cylinders lopped off. It was found in a lot of transit buses and had power ratings between the 6V-92 and the 8V-92.

The Series 40 was basically identical to the IHC T444(E), which was basically the same as the 6.9/7.3/Powerstroke used in Ford light duty trucks and vans.

[Sharkey]

Here's some history of two-stroke diesel engines. Some, if not most of the images are still viewable: http://www.mrsharkey.com/forum/vwtp.php?t=376

[graydawg]

Hello all, I like the info listed, was wandering how the 8V71's did on vegetable oil or is that a no no with these engines? I have a 64 PD4106 with this engine, it does like high sulfur O/R fuel but the rose colored glasses could be a problem on the road traveling. Any other info would be appreciated.

[Mark R. Obtinario]

I should have included the fact the 2-cycles can turn either left or right.

The 2-cycles recommended fuel is #1 diesel. They will run on #2 but will smoke more than on #1.

I am thinking that if you put WVO through a 2-cycle you are going to have one smokey burner on your hands.

[TMAX]

2-cycle DD's came in three sizes and two flavors available in over the road vehicles.

They came in three sizes, the -53 series, the -71 series, and the -92 series.

The number refers to the cubic inches of each cylinder.

They came in two configurations, inline and 'V' type. If the designator had a 'V' in it the engine was a 'V' configuration. If it didn't it was an inline engine. For instance a 6V-92 was a V-6 with six holes that were 92 cubic inches. Or if it was a 6-71 it was an inline 6 with six holes that were 71 cubic inches.

Adding a 'T' meant it was turbocharged. Adding a TA meant it was turbocharged and aftercooled.

The -53 series tach out at 2750 RPM's and really define the term "screaming Jimmy".

The -71 series is the most common and the -92 series is the newest series. Both the -71 and -92 tach out at 2250 RPM's.

4-cycle DD's came in three common flavors.

The Series 60 was a large 6-cylinder heavy duty diesel engine and came in two sizes, the small one a little less than 12 liters and the big one a llittle more than 12 liters.

The Series 50 was the Series 60 with two cylinders lopped off. It was found in a lot of transit buses and had power ratings between the 6V-92 and the 8V-92.

The Series 40 was basically identical to the IHC T444(E), which was basically the same as the 6.9/7.3/Powerstroke used in Ford light duty trucks and vans.

When working microwave radio for AT&T, my favorite emergency generators were Detroit powered. One was powered with a Detroit 3-71 (45 kilowatt) that ran at 1800 RPM. The other two were powered with Detroit 2-71s, one 20 KW and the other 30 KW. They ran at 1200 and 1800 RPM. I loved the roar from them especially the lower speed (20 KW) unit.

I took a training course at Krody-Collier on Detroit maintenance and was told by an old timer there that the 2-71 used to be called Singing Susie. When used in trucks in the '30s and '40s, the drone would often lull the operators to sleep behind the wheel (more than likely it was the exhaust).

[Sharkey]

I ... was wandering how the 8V71's did on vegetable oil ... ?

Here's a copy-and-paste from the last time someone asked about running a diesel on vegetable oil:

At the risk of sounding opinionated:

I would NEVER run vegetable oil in ~ANY~ of my meticulously rebuilt diesel engines. Biodiesel, yes, SVO/WVO, never!

To kick my credentials, I have been involved in alternate fuels for diesel engines since 2000. I am part owner of a 5 million gallon-per-year biodiesel fuel production facility, and have been heavily involved with several alt fuel coops. No one I know who started out running veggie oil is doing so any longer. Even the garage that still converts cars to run on SVO/WVO for customers has stopped using it in their own vehicles.

The conversion process of making vegetable oil into biodiesel involves removing the glycerin molecule from the oil, leaving the ester molecule. Glycerin make up about 20% of the bulk of vegetable oil. The process is not difficult, and it need not be dangerous or environmentally damaging.

Yes, diesel engines can and will run on SVW/WVO, but extended tests have shown that the glycerin in the fuel causes a variety of problems. These include ash deposits on combustion cylinder parts, accelerated wear of injection system parts, and corrosion and contamination of injection pumps. Worst of all is that glycerin, when introduced to the internals of an engine in the form of blowby, causes motor lubrication oil to polymerize, essentially turning the oil into a hard plastic, which coats the inside of the engine with a hard glazing of film. The effects of SVO/WVO are cumulative, and don't begin to show up for tens of thousands of miles.

Here's the kicker, SVO/WVO proponents will claim that it's more environmentally sound to use unprocessed vegetable oil rather than biodiesel because it is less processed and doesn't involve the use of toxic and reactive chemicals. What they don't tell you is that burning glycerin at low temperatures creates acrolien gas, which is carcinogenic. Acrolien was used as a chemical warfare agent in WWI.

It has been suggested that heating the veggie oil to 160°F before introducing it to the injection system will lessen the production of acrolien, but injection systems were never intended to use fuel at this temperature. In fact, the flow of fuel through the injection pump is intended to cool the internals of the pump.

Why on earth anyone would want to dig around in greasy dumpsters, heat and filter oil, then have a complicated dual fuel system on their vehicle in order to destroy their engine and produce poison gas is far beyond my comprehension. It's probably also possible to run a diesel engine on rat poison, but I wouldn't want to do that, either.

I will only run my engines on ASTM certified 100% biodiesel. Yes, biodiesel requires some forethought, and possibly some minor fuel system modifications, but compared with the nightmare of SVO/WVO, it's a walk in the park.

If you want more information on biodiesel, I'd be glad to provide it.

[graydawg]

I am glad I asked I had been looking at doing this on the bus but not on my 04 dodge until I seen how good it was. THANKS JAMES IN DA GRAYDAWG

[dburt]

I have a friend who owns an older VW Jetta diesel, and about a 1999 Ford 7.3 diesel pickup. He mixes his own WVO diesel brew by first straining the crud and water from the oil, then mixing in about 25% gasoline and some anti-gell and water remover additive. In cold weather he pre-heats the fuel in a small tank before it gets to the engine in the pickup. In really cold weather he uses a 75% gas and regular diesel mix with 25% WVO for his mix.

Another mutual friend thinks friend #1 skirts disaster by doing things this way, but so far he has avoided any major problems with both the VW and the Ford diesels. It is very tempting to try and save money by doing some such thing, but at what cost down the road to your pump, injectors, etc?

He figures his cost of diesel fuel is about 75 cents per gallon.

[Jones'n4chrome]

I have a friend who owns an older VW Jetta diesel, and about a 1999 Ford 7.3 diesel pickup. He mixes his own WVO diesel brew by first straining the crud and water from the oil, then mixing in about 25% gasoline and some anti-gell and water remover additive. In cold weather he pre-heats the fuel in a small tank before it gets to the engine in the pickup. In really cold weather he uses a 75% gas and regular diesel mix with 25% WVO for his mix.

Another mutual friend thinks friend #1 skirts disaster by doing things this way, but so far he has avoided any major problems with both the VW and the Ford diesels. It is very tempting to try and save money by doing some such thing, but at what cost down the road to your pump, injectors, etc?

He figures his cost of diesel fuel is about 75 cents per gallon.

HOLD MY BEER, WATCH THIS!