Fifth Wheel Trailer From Scratch

[Patrick46]

WOW!!! Whadda thread!!!

OK...I TOO have plans to build a 5th wheel trailer...to pull behind my latest mad creation...
http://img227.imageshack.us/i/10043l.jpg/ ...my Hot-Rod Peterbilt!!!

I like the idea of using a 32' flatbed 5th wheel trailer for the base. The framework and all rolling gear and brakes are already in place and ready to go...so I don't have to worry about getting this very important piece correct.

I'm thinking of taking an old semi trailer from the 50's (you truckers out there will understand what I'm talking about)...and chopping off the bodywork, and straddling it over the 5th wheel trailer.

So now I'll have a rolling trailer with an old looking ribbed body on it...which will mate up to my truck BEAUTIFULLY!! The rest is interior...which is the fun stuff anyway.

Oh...I'll have the ability to haul a hot-rod or a bunch of murdercycles inside the very back of it...much liike a toy hauler....(but way cooler!!)
It all becomes a living room when empty.

This is what we're planning on using for our future snowbird travels.


btw...Mr. Ranger...I used to live in Hendersonville! (many, many moons ago)

[Mark R. Obtinario]

On the road over the weekend and noticed a moving van that would most likely fill the bill better than anything else.

The brand name was Kentucky ( http://www.kytrailer.com/custommoving ). The trailer had a front drop frame and storage boxes under the floor that I assume go all the way across underneath the floor.

I would think that almost any low bed trailer, while it starts really low, would make a poor platform upon which to build a living space.

First, since they are so close to the ground you won't be able to locate any of the plumbing or tankage below the floor.

Second, and probably more impportantly, a low bed trailer designed and built to support the weight of very large loads like Cat D8's is not going to be a lightweight by any stretch of the imagination. Of course you would never have an issue of overloading the trailer but you would also have to haul around a lot of excess and unnecessary weight. Weight going down the road equals fuel use.

[Lostranger]

Yes, this thread has been a jewel.

I'm looking at a Kentucky furniture van: 1996, 48' x 96". The seller wants too much for this one, but he'll either come down, or I'll find another.

This trailer has the lowest possible floor for a semi. Rather than being a disqualifying factor, I think the low floor is a boon. I plan to frame a second floor level with the existing deck over the fifth wheel. We'll enter from a curbside door with internal steps like a bus. With radiant floor heat, the area between the original floor and the new floor will become a heated crawl space and protect all the tanks, lines, utilities and under floor storage from freezing. I'll stop the new floor at the back of the wheel wells, and build a dividing wall across the trailer there. The area between that wall and the rear trailer doors will be a wonderful storage/utility/shop space separate from the living compartment.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Jim

Marion, NC

[Rudy]

Jim, that sounds superb. Lots of room for all your needs. The Ultimate Space Ship.

[Lostranger]

I have been researching licensing requirements in North Carolina. I will be able to register the trailer as an RV, but concerning the tractor, NC law says: "If vehicle has a 5th wheel, it must be registered as a Truck Tractor." If the trailer has a GVW of more than 10,000 lbs., the combination requires a class A CDL.

None of this throws me off. I'm not concerned about getting the license and passing the health exam. Don't know yet what the rig will weigh and how much the annual registration will be. I'll report more on the licensing when I know more.

Jim

[Patrick46]

Your idea of making a floor ABOVE the deck floor, thus creating a basement is spot on!!!

Mark...consider folks who do bus conversions using a Prevost, an Eagle, an MCI, or an old GMC...ALL these busses have basement storage areas that are utilized for storage and holding tanks, and like Mr. Ranger stated...this will help protect them from freezing and other road debris.

BRAVO!!! I'm watching this thread closely!!!

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

Even Sharkeys crown has all the plumbing above the floor and below the deck. So I think all or most of the pipes are up inside the bus.

[Lostranger]

Most bus and truck based homes have holding tanks and some plumbing below deck in unheated space. All the tanks in my Flex transit are outdoors. This arrangement works fine for snowbirds and those who only use their mobile living space during moderate weather. Most conversions of inter city busses have tanks and plumbing in baggage compartments, protected from wind, but still unheated in most cases.

What I am proposing is to put my tankage and plumbing in space that will be insulated and freeze protected any time the coach is heated. Since we'll be living in it full time, that will be always. I will segregate one section of this "crawl space" to mount propane tank(s). Propane requires floor venting and is, of course, not affected by freezing temperatures.

Sharkey's Crown does appear to have most of its supply and drainage lines in an area above the original bus floor and below the new living space floor. This should result in similar freeze protection. However, I don't see any holding tanks installed on the Crown. I have the impression that he intends to move this bus seldom and always be connected to shore utilities when he uses it. Putting fresh, grey and black water holding tanks in his inter-floor area would be problematic. It's a different setup for a different purpose.

Jim

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

In my first skoolie home I had 2 / 100 Gallon fresh water tank inside the bus builtin under the 2 bunks with no heaters on the tanks but I did have good heat in the bus and in 4 1/2 years I had a pipe "not the tank" freezes up once cuz it got low to about 10 for a few days

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

In my first skoolie home I had 2 / 100 Gallon fresh water tank inside the bus builtin under the 2 bunks with no heaters on the tanks but I did have good heat in the bus and in 4 1/2 years I had a pipe "not the tank" freezes up once cuz it got low to about 10 for a few days

[Standaddy]

Jim,
My few years experience in the trucking business tells me that you should fully investigate the licensing/insurance/fuel tax requirements of using a later model tractor before you get too far along. The problem is that the feds, and some states, do not recognize that a truck-tractor might be used for anything other than a power unit for a commercial trucking enterprise. I think you would be required to have a DOT number (not a problem in itself), file quarterly IFTA fuel-tax reports, have commercial insurance, and register the truck through the IRP system, with cost determined by gross weight rating and number of states you want to be tagged for. Your rig would weigh much less than the 80K gross that my car-hauler was tagged for (probably more like 35K lbs.) but just for comparison, the yearly tag for my truck was around $1600, and insurance was roughly $1000/mo. , but this included cargo insurance which you won't have, and 1mil liability that was required.
One way to lessen the bill in lots of states, not sure about NC, is to put a farm tag on the truck, which is still prorated by gross weight, but cheaper than commercial truck rates. I'm not sure, but there may be distance restrictions there though.
More later.
Stan

[Standaddy]

Also, you might have a hard time convincing the DOT cops that you're not subject to their garbage, which includes logbook, inspections, and the hassles they are paid to dispense to truckers.
I know you're not interested in an antique truck per se, but in some states, mine included, a vehicle 25 years old qualifies as an antique. That's what makes the antique-truck hobby almost affordable for lots of folks. In Alabama a lifetime Vintage tag is $100 or $150, can't remember which, and antique insurance is equally affordable. There are some restrictions, but none that I know of that would keep you from going that route. The part of that route that might make it more interesting to you is that from say, 1980 on, lots of trucks were equipped with power steering, a/c, air-ride suspensions, modern design dependable drivetrains, and such, so that if they have been kept in good repair, they are still quite usable, comfortable, and dependable.
I know I've gotten a bit too long-winded, so I'll try to hush. But one other thing that the antique-truck crowd has learned. You might talk to more than one person at your local DMV office, or even the state office. When you ask about a subject such as what you want to do, that isn't an every-day occurance for them, many times you get a less than informed answer. Sometimes going to a different person yields a different answer, and sometimes the written law doesn't exactly address your situation, which leaves room for interpretation.
Good luck.
Stan

[Sharkey]

Sharkey's Crown does appear to have most of its supply and drainage lines in an area above the original bus floor and below the new living space floor. This should result in similar freeze protection. However, I don't see any holding tanks installed on the Crown. I have the impression that he intends to move this bus seldom and always be connected to shore utilities when he uses it. Putting fresh, grey and black water holding tanks in his inter-floor area would be problematic. It's a different setup for a different purpose.

Quite right, the Crown is really being built as a portable house, not an RV. I do have plans to put small grey and black water holding tanks above the front axle, between the frame rails for those few times I will need to be self-contained.

In the Housetruck, I usually just leave the kitchen faucet running a bit in cold weather. This usually works, but not always. In very severe cold weather, or when the water supply is unavailable (usually due to freezing or other failures), I simply drain the pipes and haul the water in the old fashioned way. When I lived back in the woods and depended on a fresh water tank mounted on the frame to supply the water, I usually just drained the system in October and recommissioned it sometime in late March or early April. No worries about frozen pipes. Of course, the drain plumbing would eventually get frozen, which meant that I had to haul the water in and haul it back out, using a 5 gallon bucket under the sink to catch the water coming out of the disconnected P-trap.

Pretty hard core, eh?

Here's a pic of the Crown plumbing, I'm hoping that it's insulated enough that I can forego the hauling-out part:



It was necessary to put the plumbing inside the floor boost because the original bus floor is constructed directly on the chassis frame rails, there are no spaces through which pipes can cross from one side to the other. Putting the fixture pipes through both floors and attempting to make connections under the bus and into tanks would have resulted in plumbing that was scraping the road! It was quite a job to get everything sloped properly and connected where it needed to go in the 6+ inches of the floor boost!!

Old Housetrucker Zen saying:

"Haul wood, chop water"

[ezrablu]

Excellent Sharkey! Really good photo!

[Sharkey]

Of course, those compartments are now filled with R-19 fiberglass insulation and covered by ¾" plywood.

Here's the page containing the rest of the plumbing dialog: http://www.mrsharkey.com/busbarn/potd/potd8.htm