NOMADICISTA

So glycerin is another ester? Hmmm. Good to know. Guess I can't use that either.

Well, will just keep waiting for the next new thing to come along.

Hey, I just had a brain fart....er, uh, an idea... The trailer has a Dicor EPDM 'rubber' roof and Dicor has a treatment - cleaner/protectant for their rubber. Wonder what that would do?? I have a couple of old junker tires laying around so may have to experiment. Will keep you posted.

Sorry,
Yeah, guess I don't know what I am talking about. Esters are a type of bond present in vegtable oil. Mr. Sharkey is right.
DF (back to the oil shed with me....)

Well I wouldn't know who's wrong or right cuz the only Ester I know used to clean rooms at one of the motels I ran back in the late 70's...and she was so mean they probably named that rubber attacking stuff after her

Was it Ester Williams?

Alrighty, After enjoying my large portion of crow, I decided to get over feeling mad because I was ignorant. One thing that Mr. Sharkey said has rang true from my experience with both biodiesel and waste vegatable oil.
Both will eat rubber eventually. If Esters are doing it, that is fine. What is important is that its generally a slow process. The vehicles I operate have rubber fuel lines between the fuel tank and lift pump. Then usually a couple of lines between the lift pump and the injector pump. The lines can be counted on to last at least a year. The picture below is from a 1984 6.2 powered Chevy pickup. The line I am pointing to has degraded after seven years immersed in biodiesel. The lines are the original equipment. So the fuel will eat the lines, but never fear, its a slow process. They make lines that resist biodiesel but the cost isn't worth it if the line is easily changed.

I wasn't trying to call you out, I have a lot of respect for anyone who has enough curiosity and stick-to-it-ness to mess with making wood gas, etc. Most people never make ~any~ energy, so I always gripes me when someone bad-mouths PV, biodeisel, etc. At least we are *producing* something rather than just consuming.

As for rubber getting eaten, we did some experimentation a few years back. Took a bunch of rubber car parts, radiator hoses, fuel lines, motor mount rubber, etc, and immersed them in a bucket of B100. Six month later, we fished them out and although they were a bit slimy on the surface, they were still solid. Our take on this was that biodiesel (and veggie oil) molecules are slippery, that is they migrate through rubber easily, permeating the material. Degradation only sets in in the presence of air, oxidation being the likely culprit. When I have fuel lines rot out, it seems to happen from the outside in, the exterior is a mass of black goo, while the inside is merely spongy.

Synthetic lines are the answer. There is "viton" (trade name for a fluoropolymer elastomer product), which is biodiesel resistant. Even in small diameter lines, it's about $1/inch, and much more spendy in larger sizes.

I found a excellent and cheap substitute, urethane. It resists biodiesel and holds up over the long term. I buy it at the motorcycle race shop in 1/8" and ¼" diameters for about $1/foot. Larger diameters are available through industrial plumbing supply houses, but it's stiff and not as supple as the motoX fuel line.

Another acceptable substitute is nylon air brake hose. Cheap, fairly flexible, comes in a variety of sizes, and available in colors! Doesn't make tight bends well, and probably not suitable for very high temperature locations.

My industrial supply house has "Chemflex" in larger diameters for fuel filler hoses and such, and my buddy who converts VW Eurovans to TDi power turned me on to Goodyear "Fuel Injection Hose SAE J30R9" which appars to be rubber hose with a viton liner. Apparently, it's available at places like Autozone, etc. I'll be using this when I rebuild the fuel tank on my BIODZL Rabbit later this year.

Sharkey wrote:Most people never make ~any~ energy

Actually Sharkey most people do. It's just that no one's found a way to viably catch, store and use it.

Lois

Dualfuel wrote:Alrighty, After enjoying my large portion of crow, I decided to get over feeling mad because I was ignorant. One thing that Mr. Sharkey said has rang true from my experience with both biodiesel and waste vegatable oil.
Both will eat rubber eventually. If Esters are doing it, that is fine. What is important is that its generally a slow process. The vehicles I operate have rubber fuel lines between the fuel tank and lift pump. Then usually a couple of lines between the lift pump and the injector pump. The lines can be counted on to last at least a year. The picture below is from a 1984 6.2 powered Chevy pickup. The line I am pointing to has degraded after seven years immersed in biodiesel. The lines are the original equipment. So the fuel will eat the lines, but never fear, its a slow process. They make lines that resist biodiesel but the cost isn't worth it if the line is easily changed.

DF, you're getting your nice sweater greasy.

An amazing thing happened this week. There was (small) visible forward progress on my bus project! First in a couple years. Felt good.

I called the local truck salvage yard last week just on a whim to ask about wheel rims for the bus. They had two Accurride 22.5 x 8.25 rims for the dayton hubs my bus has! $50 each. They are dirty, but look very good - almost new. This is amazing to me - I can join the 20th century!

Now, I can put a real live tubeless tire on the thing! Two of them.

Now all I need is a powder coat place that can put a psychadelic pattern of different colors on the rims...

I left name and number in case they get more.

Now all I need is a couple of cheap steer tires.

Doubled post, edited out text.

-Sharkey

Sorry about doubling that... the wifi is really flaky sometimes and makes me think things have happened that haven't and haven't that have.

That's OK, remember that you can use the magic "Delete" button until someone esle replies to the post or the time limit expires (I have to figure out what that's set to be. There's also a "Hall Pass" for editing and deletion, that I think Rudy has right now...)