The best bus to purchase

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:37 am

I have heard the question asked, "What is the best bus I should purchase?" more than once.

My answer has always been, there is no one size fits all bus out there. As a consequence, you as the purchaser need to determine how you are going to use the bus before you ever purchase your bus. Where you use your bus and how you are going to use your bus will have a very big impact upon what you purchase as well. The wrong bus can end up costing you not only a lot of $$$ but a lot of time and trouble as well.

I don't know about most of you but I never have enough time and $$$. And as far as aggravation goes, I have more than my share of it so I don't deliberately go looking for it.

Having said all of that I will give a short primer on buses.

Buses come in four basic kinds--school buses, commercial buses, transit buses, and motorcoaches. Each of those categories can then be further divided into several further categories by size and use.

For all practical purposes DO NOT consider any commercial bus for conversion. Most have some sort of composite body mated to an OEM supplied chassis. In the out years, the marriage between the body and the chassis usually ends up in a very bad divorce. The vast majority are built with a whole lot more bus than there is truck underneath. And very few have any space down below for anything.

Transit buses can be found for sale at very low prices. They come in many different sizes from very short to 60' articulated versions and 45' double decker versions. Most that have been built since the mid-90's are 102" wide. Their advantage is they have a lot of headroom. Their real disadvantage is they have very little space under the bus and most of the time do not have highway gearing. And until recently most were built with V-drive power packages that severely limit any repower or regearing possibilities.

School buses come in four types--Type A (mini-buses built on van-cutaway chassis, most often Ford E-350 chassis), Type B (also classed as mini-bus but built on a rail chassis, most often on the GM P-30/Workhorse chassis, with the service door behind the driver and the front axle), Type C (conventional chassis, most often made by IHC, in sizes from as few as four rows of seats to as many as 13 rows of seats with some having a driven front axle), and the Type D (in three different versions with the engine in front, or mid-mount, or in the rear with as few as 7 rows and as many as 16 rows). The downside of the school bus is that until the last few years most were relatively underpowered and struggle to maintain the truck speed limit. The upside is they are cheap, they are rugged enough to get off road (within reason), there are few roads in the country they don't travel up and down twice a day, and if they don't have underside luggage compartments there is plenty of room to add some.

The motorcoaches come in many sizes with the most common being 35', 40', 45', and a very few that were 60'. The 35' and some of the 40' buses have two axles. Most 40' and all 45' buses have three axles with most of the third axles either a bogey or trail axle. The 60' has five axles. Almost all motorcoaches built since the mid-90's have been 102" wide. Very few have two driven axles. All have large underfloor storage compartments. The real upside to the motorcoaches is that they are designed and built for the long highway trips. They have the power and gears to push the speed limit just about anywhere. The downside for most motorcoaches is their size. Not only are they long but they are tall. Most are at least 12' tall and some are more than 13' tall. With their height and length also comes a lot of weight. Their size can limit your accessibility to second class highways and back roads. Finding weight or height restrictions on a road that requires you to back up for miles to find a place to turn around is never fun. They also are the most expensive to purchase and the most expensive to maintain--the more axles you have the more brakes, tires, bearings, etc. that you have to maintain. They also have heavy duty diesel engines with matching transmissions that can cost a ton if anything goes wrong.

So again, before you go out and purchase a bus you need to determine what exactly you plan to do with your bus and where you plan to go with it. Until you answer those questions it is really hard to know how to advise you as to what bus would be the best for you to purchase.

Good luck.

Headache · Post by **Headache** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:52 am

This should be stickied if it can be done.

Mark if you would please explain or give examples of commercial buses. I'm unsure as to what those are tbh.

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:07 pm

Commercial buses are the buses one sees running around airports, nursing homes, hospitals, handicap access transit, etc.

Most are built on van-cutaway chassis or rail chassis. The most common van-cutaway chassis being the Ford E-350/450/550. The most common rail chassis made by Workhorse or Freightliner most recently. Ten years or older the most common rail chassis was the GM P-30 chassis.

Most have a lot more bus on top than the truck underneath can really handle.

Most are built with some sort of composite body material. The composite body does not lend itself to modifications.

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Sat May 14, 2011 3:09 am

Mark, your knowledge blows me away....thanks again for your posts

Jesper The Dane · Post by **Jesper The Dane** » Sat May 14, 2011 9:48 am

Thank you Mark, for your description of the various buses in US. It can all more or less be applied to Europe as well, but we use other types of vans for the small buses, and we don't have a schoolbus system - and therefore not a vast amount of cheap buses ready for converting... Also the length of the buses overhere are smaller. I think the longest ones allowed for European traffic are what you call 30' buses?!

Apart from that, all you say can be applied to buying a bus here to. When we decided to look for a bus, we decided on an approx. 8-9 meters (25'-28') long bus, about 240 cm (95'') wide and 300 cm (10') high... That way a bus is more manouvreable, and easier to park. But still it has enough room for 2 peoples living space.

Because of the climate, metal are prone to rust so far north. Or really it is because salt are used on the roads in the wintertime, and therefore makes it hard to find old buses in good nick. They are all rustet away unless kept in a garage...

Unfortunately we are not the only one thinking like this, and it means that prices for the smaller buses are higher than the bigger ones, as these doesn't sell so fast. Also the smaller buses has a better fuelconsumption, than the bigger and heavier ones...

The couches used for long distance travelling are of course the best to buy - but also the most sought after in good condition. The buses used for route traffic in town are not as good equipped, and not as good looking - after my taste.

But it was the price that did it for us. The distances here in Europe are small compared to America, and even though the diesel here cost a fortune, the smaller price when buying make up for a lot of diesel! So therefore we're going for the full 11 meter (30') buses instead. More to choose from, lower prices, and the big ones in our priceclass are in much better conditions than the smaller ones...

I like buses with a rounded shape, and so far we have fallen for a Setra 215. Our kind of money will not get us near a couch, but will get us a good people carrier used between cities, such as the Setra 215. Google it, if you like to see it. Nothing special, but it would fulfill our dreams... Really it's not that important to me what make the bus is, as almost all buses on the market are made to fulfill the same specifications according to the laws all over Europe... Generally buses are made to last, as the travelcompanies won't buy them if they keep breaking down.

Some people keep telling us that we should buy something already converted, and then redecorate it to our own taste. But the ones I've seen so far have been a downright mess to look at, and also I like to know what's behind every panel, and have my hands in the gutter, instead of buying things of the shelves... And it pisses me of to have to correct other peoples mistakes. I'd rather use that extra dough to get my hands on something not already converted...

Jesper The Dane · Post by **Jesper The Dane** » Sat May 14, 2011 10:32 am

I'm babbling away here not having a damn clue!!!

We have much longer couches in Europe than 30'... We have these linked buses for innercity and cross country travel. I don't know how long the longest of them really are...???

dburt · Post by **dburt** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:32 pm

Jesper- when you get your bus, you will have to share photos with us please! Or other photos of other people's buses when you see them too!

Lostranger · Post by **Lostranger** » Sun May 15, 2011 9:03 am

Thanks, Mark, for your fine overview. Well said and helpful, especially to those who are just beginning to look.

Since I have decided that our Flex Metro transit is not worth repowering, I'm parting it out and looking for a different shell. I have a place to store components, so I'll pull the conversion stuff, remove the components and cut up the rest for scrap. This bus has lots of aluminum and SS, and it should scrap well. (Lots of parts for sale if anyone is interested.)

The reason I'm replying to your post is to share that we have decided to shop for an MCI, either C3 or D3. Both are 102" wide. The 40' length will limit our travel options, but that seems a worthwhile compromise since 35' busses with modern engines and drive trains are rare. We're moving toward full timing, and we particularly want the long-term engine and drive train that a relatively late model intercity bus offers.

I understand that this list is heavily weighted toward skoolies, but most of us have similar goals that we are able to apply to a variety of platforms. Not many of us appear to be interested in a bus or house truck that would turn heads among the country club set. Not that I'm against the country club set. I love the game of golf. It keeps so many people off the trout streams.

Everybody do your thing in the bus or truck that suits your style. I'm grateful for the wide variety of help and encouragement I always find at Sharkey's site.

Jim in NC

Post by **Sharkey** » Sun May 15, 2011 11:51 am

In spite of all the good advice we dispense here, I still think that this page has a lot to teach:

http://www.pardo.net/bus-0035/buses.html

Everything you wanted to know plus the kitchen sink thrown in for good measure.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Sun May 15, 2011 12:27 pm

WOW! It is going to take me hours to read this stuff.

Where did you find all that info, Sharkey?

Thanks for posting it.

I feel that I am in a college course called Bus Savvy.

dburt · Post by **dburt** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:28 pm

After studing all that info, I'll be ready for my PHD in Bus-nomics!

Or perhaps we should call it Bus-ology?

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:03 pm

Ya, kind of like taking a like mini bus-iness course and nothing like a bus-ectomy that's for sure

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:45 am

@Jesper the Dane--I owned a Setra S215HDH and used it in my charter bus business. It was a great bus but it would have been one of my last choices for a conversion. Besides being really tall and not having a flat floor the weird German 24-volt electricals would have made converting a real challenge.

I realize the S215 used in Europe isn't quite the same--not as high and only 2-axles--you probably don't think the German 24-volt electricals are weird.

Setra, Neoplan, and Van Hool in Europe have some really nice double deck highway buses that would make really neat conversions.

In the final analysis, only you can decide which bus will be the best for you.

NOMADICISTA