1989 S1600 White Rhino

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Headache
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

I guess it would depend on which one as there are a few. Most of the people I know are at Standing Rock and Cheyenne River. As far as the "interesting" part, are you talking about Duane Martin and the Elder abuse scandal and occupation on Pine Ridge? If you want to travel across together I'm game. I'll be taking a slight detour in Iowa so I can stop in at my favorite truck stop in the whole world before moving on. http://iowa80truckstop.com/

Okay everyone, HUGE question...

I'm working out the details of the sub floor construction and plumbing. Toilet shipped out yesterday and I want to set that up so it's a direct drop into the black water tank.

My question is: How do you figure out what size tanks to get?

I will be sitting for long periods with random and occasional trips away and "hopefully" hooked up to sewer but I have to be prepared just in case it's not available.

I'm also still trying to work out floor framing details. Someone suggested using 2x8s since I wanted to raise the floor no more than 10". That would work out pretty good using 2x4s flat on the top and bottom(like an I beam) if I wanted to. They said to not use 2x10 because the chances for cracking and warping even after I screwed them in would be a much larger risk.

My idea was to frame the floor out, lay down the insulation boards then slip the tanks between the frame rails. But I've been unable to find tanks that were made to fit in that sort of space unless they are custom made. =/

Looking at it now I should just frame it with 2x4s and build frames around whatever tanks I get. Looks easier. But I'd still like to know how to figure out what sizes to get. Oh! And also where to find em. I've been watching fleabay and looking on some surplus sites but I think so much of this stuff is moving right now that the sites aren't quite keeping up with updates if they have an online catalog at all.
rlaggren
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

> tanks

Headache

Try this lady - Peggy Hall. She's been "doing" marine toilets for 25 years and part of that gig is getting tanks that fit the bottom of boats. And part of _that_ is knowing all the good tank vendors and types of tanks. I'm not sure her exact address, but I think you will get her a one of the below:

peggy.hall@gmail.com
peggyhall@gmail.com

Otherwise, try google. That'll probably be harder because you get thousands of hits and you need a recent one with contact info.

> insulation...

Foam is way more efficient. Go with the "closed cell" stuff because it won't absorb as much water when (not if) it gets wet. If you're framing up so high (10") you might get your tanks inside your insulated space - and that would be way nice in below-freezing places and leave the "frame space" for fuel, batteries or dry storage.

> vapor barrier... all climates...

I _think_ that means you use one on both sides of the sandwich and design a small amount of air movement into your insulation sandwich so it can dry out when it gets wet; also design it so it will drain. Again using the foam is great because the foam provides it's own barrier - all you have to do is glue/caulk/seal each seam so the is no _unplanned_ air movement through the insulation.

You still need to ensure that it will dry (both top and bottom of the foam) if it gets wet. This is because otherwise when somebody dumps a glass of water on the floor, it'll get under the finish and stay there rotting things, stinking and growing mold cells. For the bottom (outside of the insulation) I think putting the foam boards on top of 1/4" x 1" cleats (try _real_hard to use Pressure Treated material) laid (glued - that "poly" again) 12" OC on the bottom floor of your shell will provide the small air space and movement needed. Don't run the cleats all the way across, leave about 3/4" between the ends and the walls of your shell so the spaces between each cleat can drain and ventilate. Snug the insulation boards against the sides of the shell and glue,caulk, tape seams between boards. Provide 1/2" air/drain holes at the edges of the shell (on the floor) at the end of each spacae between the cleats. That's the ideal, your existing shell will dictate the details. On top of the foam, you can again use 1/4 cleats, this time 2" wide to spread the load of your sleepers (floor joists - stand them on top of the cleats either direction) on the foam; again keep the cleats short of the walls by at least 3/4" to allow ventilation and draining between cleats. The foam will be strong enough to support your living space with the weight distributed this way, but you may have the occasional squeak from your floor. The top of the foam can be ventilated up into the compartment easily but to drain it will need four 1/2" holes through the foam to the 1/4" space below; the 4 corners of the shell would be likely places to do this. These holes need to remain small because they are a direct connection to the outdoors (through the 1/4" space below the foam). Your walls also need a small bit of ventilation and a path to drain if/when things get wet. They also can probably be connected to the space under the foam also, along with a small (3/8") hole at the top of the wall.

These details all sound really niggly, but water is a persistent guarranteed issue with any living space envelope that even pretends to be "tight". The problems you're trying to deal with are rot, smells, mold and keeping your insulation value up. The easiest way to avoid the first three is with lots of ventilation _inside_ the walls but that makes insulation value go way down - so that's where all the picky detail comes in.

> transmission...

I don't know the specifics of your vehicle or your budget, but: Gear Vendors have long sold an add-on heavy duty over-drive box the bolts to the tail end of many automatic transmissions. The box "splits" the existing gear ratios and with a wide ratio auto tranny you can get a very large gearing range which is nice for both slow and fast travel. It's pricey and probably makes more sense to make it part of "phase II", but it's a nice product if you're going to put many miles on a truck.

Rufus
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

Okay, found a few places to get tanks. Now I just need to figure out what size tanks(as in gallons) I need. How did y'all figure that out?

I know that I'll be parked for the most part and usually where I can be hooked up. That's not to say that I won't ever be in areas where there are no hookups but I can't see me staying more than a week out in the woods.

But would I "really" need a 30 gallon black water tank? How many poops does that hold? I think you see what I mean here. Same for the other tanks. I'm assuming the biggest one would be gray and/or fresh and that if I'm hooked up to sewer the gray won't be as important?

I have to rework my floor plan a bit. Originally I was thinking I'd raise the floor about 10" to have room for floor framing, insulation, tanks and storage and then realized if I did that, I'd be blocking use of the ramp(which is one of the reasons I chose an old UHaul to begin with). I'd get up the ramp but then have nowhere to go because I'd be up against the raised floor. This may help you see what I'm trying to accomplish.

Image

It's not to scale, there are no walls, windows or doors and I don't have the wheel wells showing because I haven't been able to measure their position in the box yet. *IF* they are where I am guessing, they will be just in front of the wall between the living area and bathroom area. I need to buy a couple of lights and then I'll be able to see what I'm doing tomorrow when I can look it over really good.

The attic is the Mom's Attic, the living area is about 14', the bathroom/garage area is about 5' and the back wall will be built about 1' inside the box for the future folding porch I'm going to build back there.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by tamangel »

As far as holding tanks are concerned, I would always want my tank sizes to ascend from potable to gray to black water. Just in case you are away from a dump station, you have the capacity to 'hold it' if needed. I would also want the option of flushing my gray water into the black water tank at a dump station as a 'final rinse', so to speak... You can have another value if you didn't want to go thru the black tank and a safe location to just dump, relatively-non-polluting gray water...Just make sure the black water tank is a straight shot out if at all possible as solids get hung in corners and angles and other possible obstructions. If I was going to be on the road regularly, I would invest in a macerator just to make the flow easier to ..well..flow..with our good friend, gravity... of course, if you are in a park with hook-ups, the point may be mute.. If you run into plumbing space problems, I always liked the option of raising the walking floor (in the living space so your ramp still works in the back room) up a foot or so to provide tank storage, pipe runs or what have you.. Seems like a lot of dead space above your head that you could be put to better use below your feet..

Just my thoughts..

Mike W

most everyone is aware of Rob Gray's builds on both WORT 1 and 2.. Lots of good ideas and good engineering in his extensive build diaries..

http://www.robgray.com/graynomad/wothah ... /index.php
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

I LOVE Gray's builds! I get some great ideas from there too but sometimes they are a bit innocuous such as the Dream Pot.

I'm looking at something similar to this, only I won't have 2 sinks, just the kitchen sink:

http://www.marxrv.com/plumbing/plumb.htm

Everything else I can figure out but I'm stumped at what size tanks I "really" need.

I had a memory card full of pics to post to my blog and here. Many were the aftermath of the tornado and the rest were of the new project truck. I lost them all, the memory card became corrupted somehow. I'm now awaiting the arrival of a smartphone with a camera.

My new RV doors arrived, still looking for windows. Somewhereintheusa how did your shopping go? Did you find anything of interest?

After my truck gets the pressure washing from Irene on Sunday and everything dries out, I'll be able to play with the rolls of blue tape I bought. =)
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

I'm anxiously awaiting my ride this evening so I can check out my truck that's park near a river. :banghead:

I'm also awaiting a new phone that has a camera on it so I can start posting up pics. I probably should get a real camera since fall is coming(My favorite time of year!) and I'll be crossing the country at the perfect time for picture taking!
rlaggren
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

If you still have the mem card, this link may provide you or one of your technical friends the what-it-takes to get your data back.

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

I've used it several times - works. The author also has a utility to go after data lost on camera cards; depending on how the mem stick was formatted that may help, also.

Rufus
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by dburt »

I lived in a nice 30-ft RV trailer for two years while out of town on a job. I had access to water, but not to any sewage drainage, either gray or black water. But- I could drain the gray water directly onto the ground because it helped to water the lawn where I was parked. My black water tank was 30 gallons. During the day I could use the toilet where I worked, and did not need to use the toilet in the trailer. The toilet in the trailer was for nights and weekends. It would last me about a month, and then I would have to move the trailer about two miles away to a dumping station. Ocassionally, maby once a month, my wife would come up for a weekend where I was working, and once or twice a month I went home on the weekends to do needed work around the home place, like mowing the lawn and fixing things that seemed to go bad when I was gone. So all in all, as a rought estimate- there was the use of the black water tank equivilent to one person living in the trailer all the time in the evenings after work and weekends. If you could figure out a way to have a 50 gallon black water tank, then perhaps with judicious use you could stretch it to two months at a time between dumping trips? If you are in a semi-private area, or on your own land perhaps you could build a small semi-permanent old fashioned outhouse where you could do a great share of your business, and save the holding tank for the nights, or when the weather is too cold to go out to the 'outdoor plumbing' facility. Or if you would be in one area for any great length of time, you could see about the possibility of buying a used portable john that you could pay to have it pumped out every so often.
I had a dear elderly aunt who was quite adventureous in her later years, she had a motorhome and would winter in Quartzite, Arizona on BLM land in the winter time. She would pay for a service truck that would come once every two weeks and bring her water and pump her holding tanks. She learned the art of mobil living, and would use public restrooms in town and occasional showers at state parks to keep the use of her own water and holding tank capacity to a minimum. A person can get creative- just like long haul truck drivers have to do alot of the time for restroom needs and showers.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Stealth Camper »

Black water - 30 gallon absolute minimum. And a tank that is designed as black water tank. 40 would be better.

Also living in travel trailer. The tank is a 40 and I usually empty about every week and a half to two weeks.

Black water tank management is critical to avoid smells and allow it to drain properly. When you empty it, you must then close the valve and put a few inches of water back in the tank. This is very important - you NEVER run a black water tank with the valve open!! It does not flush like a home toilet. And repeating myself; after you empty it, close the valve and fill with a few inches of water. The consequences of not doing this are a little volcano mountain in the bottom of the tank that hardens into a cement like block, and an extremely unpleasant smell. Extremely unpleasant!! The small refill with water prevents the mountain and allows solids to become less solid. I also use a tank treatment (TST granules) about once a week normally. When very hot, twice a week. This helps with odor and they claim it helps start the breakdown of solids. Smell reduction yes. Breakdown - who knows?? I pretty much never have a smell situation. And if/when I do, it is always because I went just a little too long between drains. Not excuse but laziness - I have a sewer hose connected all the time.

Gray water tank valve stays open all the time, until draining the black tank, then close so doesn't back up into gray. I have 30 gallons there.

Fresh water - whatever you want UP TO the same size as the smaller of the waste tanks (rule of thumb). Can go a little bigger, but then tank management takes more attention.

When you travel, the movement helps break up the black water contents so will drain nicely. You can partially fill with water for a 'rinse cycle', then drain again, if you want. I usually pass on that.

Winter - we got down to -10 degrees here for several days, and were below freezing for a couple weeks total. That will freeze the tank and contents. It is a fairly short term thing here, but could be bad further north. When you build, you can (should!) enclose the tank area with well insulated panels, and then keep the "basement" heated so tanks won't freeze. That won't keep the valves from freezing up, though. I don't have a good way to manage valve freeze. I have speculated about an enclosed valve box construct that would protect them, but somewhere, in my world, a sewer hose still has to come out into the cold. I have used mobile home type skirting and insulated boxes built around the hose, sitting on the ground in the past and that worked very well.

When deciding on tanks, look at the space in the mounting area. Carry as much fresh as you can, up to a reasonable weight limit (about 8 lbs per gallon). I plan on ending up with 100 - 150 gallons fresh on my next project. Fully enclosed/heated basement. Retractable "skirting" - probably tarp type material rather than solid. Battery/solar/windmill/generator power generation capable of supplying everything, including air conditioning. Full 4 season arctic capability. Except for water (showers will be where run short at 150 gallons - I use about 12 to 15 gal per shower), planning for minimum 1 week stand alone operation without hookups at same comfort level of full hookups. Rough guesstimate will be about 25,000 lbs trailer - medium duty 5th wheel will be mandatory. And same capabilities in bus, so about the same weights.

And I will have NO granite counter tops anywhere!!
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Dusty »

I had an 85 liter black tank for years, and it was always a problem , seemed like it needed constant emptying .

I now have 400 liter black tank (biggest that would fit into available space) and the stress is gone :)

Regarding shower use, I have two thoughts for you.
1, bucket shower. You KNOW you only have 2 gallons to use.
2, Process shower. The process is , 1, wet down 2, turn off water 3, soap down 4, turn water back on and rinse off.
Slightly less economical water use than the bucket shower, but way less water use than constant shower flow.

Also note not all shower heads are created equal, there are several different flow rates available.

Regards
58 Bedford House
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Stealth Camper »

I forgot to say what Dusty said about showers. 1. is good. 2. is what I do. Never leave the shower running between rinse actions. I use around 10 to 15 gal per shower. Less in winter, since warm runs out faster.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Stealth Camper »

Off topic, but have been looking around here and cannot find some pictures that were here. They are the big truck tractor trailer rig where the trailer was converted to a hi-lo style glamorous RV. Brown color, with very exotic (to me) insides. Would appreciate if anyone remembers which section that is in...
Thanks!
Dan
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

Today was quite busy and I feel I actually made some progress even though it wasn't much.

Hit up a couple of bone yards and hit pay dirt on the 2nd one.

The first one we stopped in at was kind of a pain as the guy that runs it wasn't there, someone else keeps an eye on the place during the day. Anyway, there were like 5 4700's just waiting for me to get my hands on them so hopefully next week. We stopped in at the other yard where the boss man was and he was cool but kinda pricey. The guy wanted $1200 for a hood, radiator bracket and fender extensions. I can wait. If I have to I'll look as I head across the US. I've seen too many decent ones advertised for much less, even in CA.

Then we went to another bone yard and had to walk up a couple of hills to get to the back where the big trucks were parked. Sadly, a shit ton of big trucks had been shredded over the last week. However, next week we'll be picking up 2 air ride drivers seats out of a couple of transit buses and maybe a transmission. The tag shows it's a Rockwell and the machine driver said it was a 10 speed. Just waiting on the mechanic to send me the pic of the tag he took.

Anyway, we also picked up the other door from UPS and put it in the back of the truck. I managed to figure out my new phone enough to take some pics and upload them to my computer.

The name on the doors sold me. :D

Image

Image

Here's a couple of pics of the electrical that had been wired in by the gals who used it for a mobile catering business. Just plug in an extension cord and all the lights and the fan in the vent come on.

Image

Image

I'll be getting rid of the garage door and building a wall there. The door we picked up today goes on that rear wall.

I also realized(before it was too late thankfully) that I may have to rethink my floor plan a bit. I was going to build a utility closet in the bathroom/garage area for the AGMs, inverter, hot water tank, etc. and then realized that I really should have those batteries closer to the alternator. I want a set up where they can be charged from the alternator when running and from the inverter when parked. Understanding electrical is just as baffling as math to me.

I copy/pasted this(because I'm tired from all the running around and laziness is taking over) from another site I also post on. It's a 4x4 site and was where I got the idea to do this.

And THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for all the info on the tank sizes you use. About 97% of the time I want to be hooked up to full services but there are no guarantees I will be so I want to be ready just in case and a toilet is one of those things I can't be without. I'm hoping that I'll get in to one of the parks by my Dad that has shower facilities as well as sewer hookups.
rlaggren
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

> batteries near alternator...

It may be more important to put the batteries near the inverter. Your alternator probably puts out 60 to 120 amps or so, but I'd think 100amps might be about the max it would give your batteries; if you have a 2000watt inverter that would be a draw of 180-200 amps (on the peak - microwave with toaster). Don't know how big your battery bank is so can't speculate on what your max charge current could be; but if you have a big bank a big inverter/charger could put out a lot more amps into it than you alternator.

Also, as an aside, I seem to recall that if you have a big bank you have to be careful of the inrush current it will draw out of whatever tries to charge it up when it's real low. Here's where 'ol Sharkey would have something to say. <g> My BinLaw just killed a computer in his Jeep --dead-- to the tune of $1200. I'm thinking he left something on in my car and ran my new 100amp/hr battery all the way down; when he tried to jump it there was a spike and "poof" no more computer. Fortunately I wasn't around to be involved in that one. <G> Haven't got back to check my car yet, either though...

Rufus

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somewhereinusa
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by somewhereinusa »

I been gone for a while, had four computers crash just last week.

Trip to the surplus place went well, I only need one window now and will have all I need. Going to those places is sometimes daunting many times I just wander around to get ideas. If looking for something specific the answer is usually "We might have it, if so it will be in that building over there"


Stabbin Cabin seems to be progressing nicely.

Dick
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