1989 S1600 White Rhino

[Headache]

I been gone for a while, had four computers crash just last week.

OUCH!! That had to be miserable!

Trip to the surplus place went well, I only need one window now and will have all I need. Going to those places is sometimes daunting many times I just wander around to get ideas. If looking for something specific the answer is usually "We might have it, if so it will be in that building over there"

I'll bet! I've had half a mind to head over there and spend a couple of weeks putting the finishing touches on my rig but I'd have nowhere to plug into. Well maybe I would but I don't know the area and I need my interwebs.

I've been getting quite a bit from fleabay, now if it would only stop raining....

Advice time!!

Here is my lovely MSPaint sketch of the framework that will end up inside my truck. Brown represents 2x4's and pink represents insulation. I've labeled the living area and the basement, and the floor I walk on separates the two. The view would be if you were looking from the front or back of the box. Keep in mind, it's just a simple sketch, it's not the real thing.



My question is; after I've laid down the insulation in the basement floor will I need to put a floor(plywood) over the entire basement even though I'll have a floor(in the living area that I walk on) above it? I know I'll need to put something on some of the 2x4's because I can't just install my tanks right on top of the insulation, but will I need to floor the whole basement?

I'm asking because I know I have to maintain some sort of air space for the insulation but my concern is if I do not lay down a basement floor that the air space of the basement will be too big to maintain a warm air cushion. I'm also trying to be cost effective since there are some aspects of my project that I needed to do that normally wouldn't be needed(like a tranny swap).

[somewhereinusa]

I wouldn't think you would need a floor in the tank and plumbing area. I've seen a number of converted coaches that have the insulation showing in their basement area. The storage area would obviously need a floor.

[Dusty]

I think that a floor over the insulation in the basement will protect the insulation and enable you to do work/store stuff in there with more ease.

[Headache]

Okay, that's awesome on the basement floor. Onward to new pics!

Even though my truck isn't a bus it's going to have air ride bus driver seats! What's cool is one of them(the dirtiest one of course) is still holding air. You can see that better in the last pic. I've got a TON of cleaning to do and I'll switch the better seat cushion to the seat that holds air for my seat.



Check out that faucet! The faucet is some kind of brushed metal and the sprayer is pretty heavy. At some point I'm going to try to find out what make it is. Under that is a counter top I was given that may end up as my desk if I don't decide to use it on kitchen cabinets.



The amazing 1950ish cabinet collection I purchased. It's going to look pretty awesome when it's repainted into a blue color that matches the denim I'll be covering my furniture with. If I go ahead and use the counter mentioned above as a desk, I may look for a big cutting board to cover any counter that isn't covered by a stainless steel counter.



My personal spa and laundry tub! After I build the raised floor it's just going to clear the ceiling by maybe half an inch. I definitely lucked out on that size of unit. The only thing I don't like is that it's grey but for $25 I ain't bitchin.



The inside of the box is beginning to resemble a town dump. Luckily my truck is at a storage facility so the only things that will actually be staying in the truck when I start building the floor is the bath unit(because it's a PITA to move), the door and the toilet. Everything else will be heading for storage or with the mechanic(for painting) until I get the floor, walls and ceiling framed, insulated and the floor installed. Then I'll take out what I need as I need it.



Until then my apartment is going to be inundated with RV parts.

A note of semi bad news; when we opened the garage door and started loading the cabinets I noticed water puddles. I thought I was going to cry until I traced where the entry points were. We've had unprecedented rains and wind from 2 tropical storms and I'm happy to say the water did not come from the roof.

To my earlier disdain and now joy, the prior owner hauled some mulch which left a lot of dust on everything. There were no water trails in the dust coming from the ceiling or walls. It was coming from the seams where the floor meets the wall. More specifically; the top of the passenger side wheel well where it meets the wall and the drivers side back corner. I think the later is from the wind and rain pushing up under the bottom seal of the garage door as it's torn in a few places.

Now I've just got to figure out a way to clean those seams really good and get them dried so I can reseal everything really good. I don't think this is a long standing issue, the FRP is still firm and there's no bubbling anywhere. I just think it proves that nasty old grey sealant isn't going to be stronger that 60 mph tropical winds coming at it from the sides.

[stuartcnz]

That tub looks awesome.

[Headache]

That tub looks awesome.

Thanks! On my "Someday I will get this done" list will be to refinish that in a different color but for now it will have to do.

I've moved the diesel heater chat here since it's definitely relevant to my build:

For the btu's it will heat a much larger space than what I'm installing it in and I've read others with similar square footage having to crack open windows to let heat escape.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, as it means more ventilation, thus less condensation problems.

Quite true. I'll have to see what I can do since that particular heater mounts against the wall and the pipe goes straight up to a flat roof. I won't have much room where it's going(right by the side door so it will be next to a traffic area) and to extend it out like that may make it end up looking really strange and extend into the passage way. I'm not sure I'll have the room to accommodate that with the damper. When I get closer to purchase time(I may have to go electric for a bit) I'll email the guys and see what they have to say since they designed and built it. I'm going to have about 3 feet of room between "things" like the kitchen, desk, piano and bed that will take up the living space. If you look at Jay's Tiny House pics with the chair on either side of the heater, that area is a good example of how much room I'm going to have from one wall to another.

Today's debate with myself is the materials to use for the framing of the walls, ceiling and floors, as well as what to put down for my flooring under the cork tiles I want to walk on. I am really trying to be responsible environmentally and atmospherically but I have to balance it with cost. I'd like to minimize interior off gassing as much as I can but I don't have the funds to soak a few grand into it. The pink board insulation is going to cost $400 to insulate for cold winters(R60 ceiling, R40 walls and basement). Now I have to figure out what it's going to be stuffed between and how much to get. I didn't like the idea of treated wood(chemical fumes) but it's easy to work with and I have the tools. I considered metal framing but I'm not a metal worker and don't have the tools. I love cedar but it's not in my price range as I'll already be spending for cedar planking to panel my interior walls. I think I may go with spruce since it's used for pole barns and lasts about as long as cedar does untreated. My "plus" in all this is that none of the wood will be subject to the conditions it would face as if it was exposed to outside elements or on the ground.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... =202086794

I'm open to suggestions.

[Headache]

Stabbin Cabin seems to be progressing nicely.

I need to go pick up my new contacs apparently.

I've read my own thread a gazillion times, posted in it a bunch obviously, and only now with this reread do I notice that I posted the wrong title. It doesn't show up in my bookmarks. This title was meant for another site where the language is a bit looser. It wasn't meant for here.

Stewart if you would please change it, it was supposed to be "1989 S1600 White Rhino". I've been calling it that because it isn't as "big"(being it's a medium duty truck) as the heavy duty trucks and Griffin has the elephant.

[rlaggren]

> structure

When building boat and van structure and furniture I make a serious effort to keep it skinny and light. The concept relies on epoxy or polyurethane glues, the strength of foam boards and the fact that this is a living space, not steel mill.

The vehicle already has an "exoskeleton" which will hold a lot of stuff up - you don't necessarily need to add strength except at openings. If you figure out what you're hanging or supporting you may find you don't need much extra beef. Glue the insulation board (2" ?) to the interior of the shell and seal the joins in the insulation well, probably with spray foam or polyurethane caulk/adhesive. If you use closed cell foam insulation and seal the joins well and hold any utilities toward the inside of the insulation (away from the exterior shell) you may have solved most of your moisture and condensation issues. Cut channels for your electrical (if needed) and install any utilities in the exterior walls, then glue 1/4" paneling (or whatever you like) over the insulation board. Ceiling the same. This depends on a CLEAN surfaces on the interior of the vehicle shell but, given that, polyurethane adhesives like PL Premium at home despot do an excellent job. If you skin the whole interior first you can then glue in walls and furniture with cleats; you can glue rails and such inside to the finish skin to support hanging lamps, etc, instead of blocking inside the wall itself (keeps that insulation value high). If you need to hang heavy stuff like book cases or kitchen cabinets, run vertical stiffeners (1x1) up the wall 24" OC, and glue supporting rails or cleats onto the wall between the vertical stiffeners; make the verticals furniture grade since they will be mostly visible. 1/2" ply (3/8" would probably work also) laid directly on top the foam floor insulation will spread the loads enough that you shouldn't need any floor framing (except around cut-outs or stuff like that) if the foam is laying on a flat fully support surface below. OR put the foam on the _very_ bottom, lay 3/8" ply on it and install all your plumbing on top of the ply along with sleepers to support your finish floor. Keeps your plumbing warm.

That's concept. Lotsa detail left hanging. The truck will carry weight so you probably don't care much about that but minimizing the framing structure and material thickness will save time and $$ and reduce bridging the insulation and potentially give you a few more inches inside to play with; or maybe you'd want to add another inch of insulation all around...

One question is how much will that box flex and wrack when moving? Sheet foam is pretty strong but it has limits. Can be dealt with though.

Wondered about those names. Figured you had a change heart somewhere along the way. <G>

Rufus

[Stealth Camper]

Just a quick comment about insulation. The Tiger Foam Dennis has mentioned in the past can be a very good solution to that problem. As for "environmental", well, I don't know all there is to know, but it seems like the "cost" versus life has to be pretty good, given how long it will do the job for the investment in time/energy/contaminants.

There was an article in "Fine Homebuilding" Magazine a couple months ago about insulation systems that was pretty good. The most cost effective they came up with was a combination of thin spray urethane (Tiger Foam) combined with fiberglass. Might be worth a trip to the library and a few dimes for the copier machine.

The really great thing about the Tiger Foam type stuff is how it seals against any kind of air intrusion. Does not absorb moisture - mold/mildew resistance. And if sprayed against the inside of the outside metal wall, don't have to worry about condensation on inside of walls.

[Headache]

Spray foam would end up being more expensive and labor intensive than the boards would be. I'm set on using pink or blue board and a knife. I wasn't as sure about the material to use for framing. Well, I am in that it won't be metal. I'll have to use what's convenient and cost effective to me so that probably means the spruce boards.

The material that makes up the box is FRP(fiberglass reinforced plywood) and in some way's it's much easier to work with than aluminum since you can cut it just like wood. The PITA in dealing with it is that it's coated with fiberglass, which means thousands of tiny glass shards when cutting it. I'll be saving my cutting for the windows and doors for the same day. I bought one of those throw away jumpsuits painters wear so I can somewhat protect myself.

The reason I'm going to frame up the inside of the box is that it will need the support. Once I remove the existing side and rub rails the box will be wobbling like crazy. This will make cutting the window and door holes very difficult and with as many holes as I'll be eventually cutting, the structural integrity will be compromised without a frame. I also need support for the aluminum roof because it doesn't have much and I'll be installing a fan vent and R60 insulation up there. By using 2x4s on the walls and 1x1s on the ceiling supports I'll have room for the insulation and the air pocket needed. I'm also framing because I'll be removing the garage door on the back of the box and putting in a door. The rear end takes a beating from all the wind drag so it will have to be a strongly supported and sealed wall. This most definitely will be the poor girls version of Sharkey and friends builds.

Framing the walls will provide the support needed to hang all my stuff(cabinets, book shelves, storage shelves, etc.) on and control the walls from flexing too much and cracking the seals the insulation boards provide.

The floor is a different story. It will be raised at least a foot for a basement to store the house batteries, tanks, etc. I'm unsure how high it will be because I'm not sure how tall whatever batteries I end up buying will be. I'm also not sure how far apart I should space the boards. I want to make sure any weight is supported, such as the fridge and my bed, the 2 heaviest items. And the bathtub when full of water.

Sorry for not providing much in the way of updates at this time. I have to be moved out of this apartment and into another(monthly yay!) in 10 days so right now that's my focus.

[Stealth Camper]

Board is very good! Seal the edges with the can spray foam and it will be airtight, too.

Use a good respirator type mask when cutting that fiberglass. I built a commercial kitchen trailer and lined the inside with the FRP sheets and had to cut some. Don't skimp on protecting your lungs. And eyes - use real goggles - not just safety glasses!

At least these;
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/reusab ... nger&xi=xi

Full face is better. At LEAST use one with a cartridge - the little white face masks are NOT enough!!!

[Mark R. Obtinario]

In regards to battery placement, I don't think you want the battery pack between the current floor and the floor you are going to build.

Batteries need lots of ventilation. If they don't, the offgassing could built up to the point that you could have an explosive reaction.

Most batteries are mounted in a frame that is open on the bottom so there is no way for the offgassing to accumulate.

I am wondering if mounting them below the current floor along the frame rail would be a better place for them.

Make an access door in the skirt and mount the batteries on a pull out tray.

If and when you ever need to service the batteries they then will be in a very accessible location. And if the batteries ever need to be removed they will be in a very easily accessible location. Batteries are heavy. Mounting a battery down in a hole is asking for back strain or injury when you end up having to lift them back out.

Just my two cents worth.

[Headache]

Heya Mark, sorry to have hung up like that but I had to grab that call. Glad to know you have a working computer again!

I'll go ahead and update here for the readers. The mechanic and the electrician were out yesterday and that electrician was super awesome! He was really quick to pick up on what I was trying to get at and had some great ideas.

The batteries will be going in a tray in the area behind the drivers side steps, under the floor where the drivers seat mounts and in front of(looking from the headlight towards the box) where the current batteries are. The tank brackets are still there for an extra fuel tank if one were to be installed so he's going to bolt a tray and hold downs on the tank brackets for the new batteries.

I'm pressured for time right now so I'll have to get done what's practical and then upgrade when I can. As it stands right now I'll need to find a place in WA to finish out the conversion because I want to get out of here before the weather gets too annoying for travel. I'll get the complicated stuff done here so I have a working toilet and can use some appliances and head on out after I get my teef!

[Headache]

Due to some issues requiring faster action than I anticipated, I've been forced into cutting some corners on my build. I'm not thrilled with this but they aren't "bad" either. The reason they aren't "bad" is because what I'm doing now is somewhat temporary so that I can move in and have some liveable features. I'll do the more long term items at my leisure and as I have the money to do them properly. I would still like to build a house truck or a bus and with that in mind, I'll live in this one while I save up for better and do the super well planned and more permanent build on it rather than this one.

The reason I'm not planning much in the way of super long term is that I won't be using treated wood except for the back wall that is exposed to the weather. I'm expecting a 5-7 year period before the wood on the interior that sits against the FRP walls deteriorates enough that it's unusable and because of this I'm planning everything, including the new truck for that kind of time period. Also, there are more environmentally friendly products coming out all the time that will make things healthier on the inside.

I bought my first generator so I'll have some power wherever I go now. This is a temporary item as I will save up for something better later on. This will power everything I have rather easily.

http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-ge ... 98839.html

Maybe someday I can get Dennis to show me the ropes on building one of those solar trailers.

Another thing I'll have to cut back on is the carriage bolts I was going to use to bolt the interior framework to the walls of the box. Originally they were to be stainless steel but now I'll be buying galvanized. I've been reading quite a bit on the boating forums about this issue and cost wise I just can't afford stainless right now. The cost of the copper for the small amount of wiring I'll be having done is outrageous right now and I need the wiring. I'll tolerate ugly bolts.

While I'm required to have a permanently installed toilet there's nothing that says I have to use said toilet. Since I have a cat he and I are going to be sharing the litter, only my "box" is going to have a toilet seat on it. I'm going to use jugs for water until I get all the plumbing done but the sink will be in and usable and I'll have a drain set up into a jug for dumping.

I'm doing this because I'll have to move into my RV before I had planned to but I can't leave the state yet. Yeah, all these plans and everything that I've had laid out and I get called for jury duty. I couldn't get out of it using moving as an excuse because I had to prove I had a new address out of state. =/

[stuartcnz]

Sounds like a sensible and practical approach. You are likely to go through some adjustments in the way you live by going down that direction, but that was going to happen no matter how polished the finished truck was going to be. I suspect that by the time you get to doing a new truck, you will have discovered that some of the compromises that you are making now, turn out not to be compromises at all, especially with things like water. Because what you are planning there is both simpler to set up, and much more reliable too.