Will it be a Housewagon?

[Lostranger]

For more than a year I've been weighing options on what to build for two of us to live in full time. I had planned to finish converting our '87 Flxible Metro transit bus, but it proved to have too many serious design flaws. I've looked constantly for the right MCI bus, but the ones I want are still too pricy. I've considered building in a semi trailer drop deck van, but moving it would require a road tractor. Lately I've been looking at heavy-duty gooseneck trailers in the 24' range, but the right trailer at the right price has not appeared.

A couple of days ago I was in the next county on business and stopped by the lot where my motorhome has been sitting for the past five years. It's 27' long and is built on an '89 Chevy truck chassis. Like almost every class A motor home, the body is junk and has had serious leaks for most of the ten years I've owned it. I need to put the engine and transmission from it into my one-ton truck, and in the process of removing the motor, I'm planning to dismantle the body, salvage appliances, systems, generator and other stuff, and recycle what I can. I'd planned all along to end up with the bare chassis, and I've thought much about removing the front axle and building a gooseneck so I could build our house on it. I never got happy with that plan. This week it developed a new wrinkle.

We don't plan to move this house often, but we want to keep mobility as an option. I've built a number of wagons over the past 30 years, mostly to use with draft horses, so I'm going to build a wagon-style steering arrangement and tongue for the motorhome chassis and build our house on it. I can easily build 30' of length AND not lose the space that would have been occupied by a gooseneck. It will be like a large vardo or circus wagon. Since we won't move it much, I've decided to frame it with wood in the great hippie housetruck tradition. Of course I'll keep the brake system and rig it to operate from a controller in the tow vehicle. I don't have any way to guess the finished weight, but I'm confident I can move it with my ton truck. I'm not currently planning to install holding tanks, but that could change as the build progresses. This house will be so stationary that I can imagine blocking it up on piers and removing the wheels for long periods. That would make it easy to underpin and allow me to store the tires out of sunlight.

My first step is to get the motorhome running and move it forty miles to our home in the mountains. At that point, I'll begin posting photos so everyone here can follow the build. I am always interested in your observations and suggestions. We'll be in no hurry since I finally have our rented shack in comfortable shape. That's been an ordeal, but it's mostly done. I'm planning to learn stained glass so we can make the windows we want. I do some blacksmithing, so we'll have to have some pretty iron work. In spite of their current popularity, I do not plan to build slide outs. They look like guaranteed trouble down the road, and I don't think we'll need the extra space. Planning independent solar with generator backup. At least one of our short list of likely sites has serious wind potential.

After several years of pretending to be middle class, we're rapidly returning to our agrarian roots. Our housewagon will be surrounded by gardens and chickens and dairy goats and a community that understands such things. We'll be the first ones living in a "mobile" home, but we probably won't be the last. Lots of folks here — from every economic strata — have lost businesses and homes and farms and more over the past couple of years. Most of the people in our mountain county seem to have a sense that the world is changing. I'm not seeing an expectation of gloom and doom, but even many who have spent their lives in hock for consumer trinkets are working to get out of debt and into situations where they can provide their basic needs. I find this an exciting and challenging time to be alive. Even more so since I have a viable foundation for our new rolling home.

Best regards to all,

Jim in North Carolina
USA

[splummer]

excellant post jim, iam going to follow this one, sounds like a great plan be looking forward to see your build, oh yeah hows the weather where you are at, where getting it tommorrow, best of luck steve

[Lostranger]

Our weather is gorgeous. We're so far from the coast that all we got was some nice breeze to cool the August day. Hope everyone up the Eastern Seaboard fares well and can soon say Goodnight Irene!

Jim

[splummer]

we are inland but we are getting the storm but will begreat tomorrow here

[stuartcnz]

A most exciting project to be sure! I am particularly looking forward to seeing the details of the steering arrangement as you build it.

[Headache]

/watching this build!

I wish your build was running ahead of mine so I could glean ideas!

[rlaggren]

"Run what ya brung"... The sign of a project actually about to take off. <g>

Sounds like a real good plan.


Rufus

[dburt]

This project looks like it's going to be in the spirit of the '70's! Excellant! Just start building and go from there. Let the old creative juices flow, and do what you want as you go. This ought to be a great project to watch! I am looking forward to this one!!

[Lostranger]

I'm excited about the build. Thanks for the encouraging comments. Of course when I finally decide to start with something available, I'm also blessed with a lot of outside work that keeps me away from the project. No complaints, though. We always need the money. I hope to move the motorhome this Thursday, but it depends on how the outside work goes.

Any of you using a small wood heater that you really like? We have wood available, and I plan to use it. We have serious winter in the North Carolina mountains. I'd like to find something that will burn 6 hours and look nice in a housewagon. Any experience with the Vermont Castings Intrepid? I read mixed reviews, but I love the old Defiant I've had for 20 years. It's too big for a wagon. We'll use a radiant propane wall heater for backup.

Stuart, I don't have the steering completely figured out, but I plan to use some sort of roller bearing spindle for both the vertical and horizontal pivot points. Slop at the pivots makes a wagon impossible to pull straight. I'll either replace the truck's tie rod with two shorter ones that connect to a plate behind the pivot or (hopefully) cut the existing tie rod and thread the halves for new ends. I'll ditch the power steering unit, of course. A rig like this will tow with an A frame bar, but I want real steering and a wagon tongue. I'm not joking when I say that we might move this wagon with horses at some future point. I'm going to put a door at the tongue end and plan for a small driver's deck. These are, after all, uncertain times.

The brakes will be another fun project. My ton truck has hydro boost brakes, but I still might use a vacuum brake booster on the wagon brakes with a line from the truck's intake. Anyone have experience tapping a hydro boost brake system with quick disconnect lines to a towed vehicle? I don't even know if that's possible, but I'll research it. Seems like it could work. If not, I'll use an electric brake controller with a servo on the wagon. Either way, it would be easy to mount a master cylinder on the wagon. A long brake pedal arm with plenty of mechanical advantage bypasses the need for a booster when a hydraulic brake system is used with a motor that burns oats rather than petroleum.

Better stop. I'm getting myself hot and bothered, and I have to go finish putting a clutch in a bulldozer. Focus, Jim, focus.

Sorry that I still don't have pictures, but I'll correct that ASAP.

Jim in NC

[Headache]

I was looking at these at first:

http://www.marinestove.com/sardineinfo.htm
http://www.marinestove.com/codinfo.htm

But I was also trying to figure out how I would heat my water and I remembered this site:

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/dheaters.php

I'll be looking at getting the diesel Newport with the single loop tube to heat my water.

[stuartcnz]

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/dheaters.php

I'll be looking at getting the diesel Newport with the single loop tube to heat my water.

These are an excellent heater. Most of the heat comes off the chimney though, so try to run it at an angle, with a couple of elbows to keep it vertical out of the heater and out through the roof.

[Lostranger]

Thanks for the Marine Stove links, Headache. Someone (maybe Dennis the Bus Dweller) posted that info a few months ago, but I had forgotten since the stoves are expensive. Look wonderful, though. I could see the Little Cod working for us if our cash flow picks up. Wonder how long it burns. We'll heat water with a propane fired demand-type heater. Bosch Aqua Star (I think) looks good.

I did not get the motorhome moved. Will probably be at least a week before I can shake loose. Can't wait to get started, but paying work is not to be taken lightly. I'm doing a range of repair work on a big farm. I finished getting the clutch in the bulldozer, I've fixed a round baler and a hay rake, repaired several autos and will soon be putting a turbo on a large Kioti tractor. I've spent most of a day running a track loader and I'm helping build some fence. All in three weeks. Still a good bit of work there, and the neighbors are stopping to ask me to look at their repair work. I've been so busy this spring and summer making the rented shack livable that I've not had time to take much outside work. Feels good to have money coming this way for a change. The shack was in much worse shape (rotten floor) than we or our landlords suspected. I've replumbed the entire house, rewired most of it, built a bathroom and a laundry room, new walls, paint and floor vinyl in one bedroom and major kitchen refresh. Mostly finished now. With the shack shipshape, we can be more deliberate with the housewagon.

Everyone knows the time/money conundrum. Seems impossible to have both simultaneously, but this income stream will speed up the housewagon project even though I'll have less time. I've not drawn anything yet because I want the bare chassis and stripped components in front of me before I decide some basic things. Like total length. Much of this project will be design on the fly, but I know some of the pitfalls from building trades experience and from converting our transit bus. I consider it a major advantage that I don't have to include holding tanks. I can mount the generator in the house or near it. Our solar panels will be at ground level and mounted so I can swivel them toward the sun. This housewagon will be closer to a tiny house than a bus conversion, but it will be about twice as long as a Jay Shafer classic.

Thanks to all who are reading the thread and especially to those who have responded. Stay tuned. I promise something to look at soon.

Jim in North Carolina

[Headache]

These are an excellent heater. Most of the heat comes off the chimney though, so try to run it at an angle, with a couple of elbows to keep it vertical out of the heater and out through the roof.

I had considered that but decided I can always do that later if needed. For the btu's it will heat a much larger space than what I'm installing it in and I've read others with similar square footage having to crack open windows to let heat escape.

I love marine stuff. Most of it is built so much better than RV stuff and when I get moved back to WA I'll be surrounded by marine!

Thanks for the Marine Stove links, Headache. Someone (maybe Dennis the Bus Dweller) posted that info a few months ago, but I had forgotten since the stoves are expensive. Look wonderful, though. I could see the Little Cod working for us if our cash flow picks up. Wonder how long it burns. We'll heat water with a propane fired demand-type heater. Bosch Aqua Star (I think) looks good.

Somewhere on the website I read that it had a 6 hour burn time but don't quote me on that. I know it's short for any "mini" wood stove because the wood has to be smaller to burn properly in the chamber.

[stuartcnz]

For the btu's it will heat a much larger space than what I'm installing it in and I've read others with similar square footage having to crack open windows to let heat escape.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, as it means more ventilation, thus less condensation problems.

[Stealth Camper]

I have thought about using a kind of modified 5th wheel approach, using a "dolly" like you see in between trailers in a big truck. Those are made in travel trailer size - I have seen them before, but cannot remember name right off hand. Found one - there must be more out there, but here is one;

http://www.digisys.net/bics/

I want to put the wheels further back on the trailer and make the front take more of the weight. Make backing/parking easier.

We were in Montana last week and a couple miles from the campground was a sheep wagon sitting in a field near the road. (Am including pictures.) It is a functioning unit at a ranch on the Yellowstone River. Waiting for the right season, I guess (summer?). Metal roof was good idea, I think. Then, the next day, we went to the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Montana to look at all their dinosaur bones. Saw those and was very impressed. At the end of the museum they had a section on ancient societies and then old west living. Lo and behold, there was a 1880's sheep wagon outfitted the way it was used. Canvas roof. Am including pictures of this, too. I realize this may be more simplistic than what you are looking for, but I found some inspiration for "space utilization" that I think I can use in the future. (There are some modern things in that wagon, like the metal shelf brackets holding one shelf above the bed. May have used this into the 20th century...)

Notice that right behind the wagon on the first museum picture, there is a wooden wagon that looks like a barrel. That is exactly what it is - a big water barrel wagon that they towed along behind for their water supply. I always wondered how they would manage that, and here is one solution. Clever people.

Some pics are pretty bad, but was indoors with long exposure and a plexiglass wall in the way. Sorry.
Dan, back in Oklahoma.


Wagon in field waiting for next summer - shut down for fall.




Old sheep wagon in museum.





Wood burning cook and heat stove. Cannot read name very well. Looks like "Bix".




Internal configuration