Another new guy

[Larry]

Hello - my name is Larry and I live in N.E. Oklahoma. I have wanted to do my own conversion for about ten years but something always got in the way. Well, that something took a hike about two years ago now so I am single and ready to get serious. I just haven't made the decision on what it's going to be yet.
I am disabled after five back surgeries and have been on a fixed income since 2001. I mention that because it is a major factor in deciding what sort of bus I convert. Another factor is how it will be used. I love to fish and camp within only a few hours drive from my home. There are eight or ten good lakes within 100 miles of me. Although 3-5 day outings are the initial intended use there is a good chance I may decide to go fulltime later. It will always be an option.
With that said I have to say I have all but etched in stone which skoolie is my conversion of choice. Also on the list is a twin screw Crown. Actually it is the top of the list followed by a Thomas rear engine diesel.
At present I am putting some work into my bass boat so a bus purchase won't be until spring. At that time I suppose the decision will depend on what is available thats worth the asking price. A shell would be a big plus or partial conversion to some degree would be a bonus, if priced within my means!
Well you get the idea. If anyone knows of or hears of a Crown or a rear engine diesel in my area worth the money let me know.

Thanks

Larry

[Dj]

Larry,

This 1970 Gillig is on eBay right now out of Ada, OK. I'm not sure of the proximity to you, but that kinda fits the mold of what you set for what you're looking for.

This is the second time I've seen this bus listed, last time it sold for just over $1000, but the buyer apparently didn't come through on their end of the bargain.

[Larry]

Thanks for the head up DJ. I had seen that one a few days ago. I am very leary of something that has been layed to rest so to speak. I am afraid I would be biting off more than I could chew.

I have given lots of thought about fulltiming being an option for the future. Talk about being undecided. A schoolie would be less financial stress, but a highway coach with those big bays really sounds good when thinking fulltime!

Monday I'm gonna look at a GM Buffalo owned by a church. We'll see where it goes from there.

Larry

[Larry]

Well the bus sold before I had a chance to look it over.
Glad I didn't drive half way across the state to find out.

Larry

[Larry]

I stopped at the local school bus barn and chatted with the head mechanic and the shop manager. They showed me two buses that have just been taken out of service because of age and said that both of them were in great condition.

The one I am thinking of bidding on is:
1989 (mfg date) International w/Ward 69 passenger conventional body
7.3 International diesel w/4sp allison automatic transmission
162,000 miles -- 75% tires all around -- clean & straight

This will be a sealed bid. The mechanic told me most of their buses sell in the $1k range. This particular bus may go a little higher.

Anyway - What are your thoughts? Any ideas on what it's worth or what it may actually sell for?

Best to Ya

Larry

[Sharkey]

Well, the price sounds reasonable. The thing about buying a bus right out of fleet service is that it is unlikely to be a rolling wreck, there's a minimum standard for reliability and safety if it's recently been being to haul kids to school.

162,000 miles is ~nothin'~, my Crown had 605,000 on it when I purchased it in 1995.

Do you get to test drive it, or is it locked in some yard somewhere?

[Larry]

Hi Sharkey - I didn't ask about a test drive today - but I will before I submit a bid.
The head mechanic is a friend and has worked at the bus barn for over 25 years. There are a some of the big Blue Bird activity buses but the oldest one probably won't be up for bid for another couple of years at the earliest. I'll be first in line the day one of them goes out of service!

Best to Ya's

Larry

[captainkf]

Is a 65 pass. bus large enough for you? I have a 54 and wish I would have gone larger. My bus had 450,000 km's on it and required an engine rebuild shortly after purchase. We got a great purchase price, from the fleet, however it required unforseen work. Have a third party (the one who will insurance inspection) check it over if you can. Then you know. I don't regret buying my bus, as the engine now is amazing and has moved and rv'd us over 20,000 km's in less than a year. I trust it, which is worth it's weight in gold.

Good luck, and I am sure you will learn to love whatever you buy. They become part of the family.

-Richard

[Larry]

Hi Richard - I have never converted a skoolie before so I don't know if it is big enough or even if it is too big. I doubt the later is true. Whether it is this bus, or another one, I doubt a shorter bus would work for my idea for a floorplan.

I am somewhat anal retentive by nature and often over think things. I believe if I stick to my list of personal priorities I will have plenty of room in a bus this size.

Larry

[Mark R. Obtinario]

IHC has made and continues to make really great school bus chassis.

Having said that, an IHC with a 7.3L and an Allison makes a really nice school route bus but a really poor choice if you want to go on the highway.

Most of the 7.3L engines were set at 165 HP--enough for around town but really breathing hard to go even 55 MPH. And the Allison hooked up to it is most likely an AT540. Hooked up to a 7.3L it will most likely never wear out but it doesn't lock up like the MT600 or HT700 series transmissions. On the downgrade the transmission pretty much freewheels.

The Ward Bus Body Company in the late '80's was going through a lot of hard times. They made some really poor bus bodies as the company transistioned from Ward to Genesis to I-C (what used to be Ward is now owned by IHC).

On first glance the buses look pretty much the same. And they are in the sense they utilize the same molds and body bucks. But the way in which the bodies were put together is as different as night and day.

Would I purchase a IHC/Ward in order to convert it? Paricularly one with a 7.3L/Allison? Probably not, unless it was virtually free and it came with relatively new tires.

If I was going to purchase a conventional school bus the only chassis I would consider would be an IHC with a DT466. The DT466 has more power (up to 250 HP with just some minor adjustments to the pump) than a 7.3L and it also has a turbo (important when going up in elevation). Most IHC buses with a DT466 will be geared to a top speed of 57 MPH. that isn't really fast but a DT466 will do 57 MPH with a full load all day long until the cows come home.

At one time there were more than a dozen different companies making full size school bus bodies. All but three have gone out of business for one reason or another. Since you will be converting your bus, not having dealer support for the body isn't really all that important, particularly since most of the parts and pieces in school bus bodies are not OEM specific. The two most important things to be aware of when looking at used school buses is rust and curved glass.

There are so many used school buses on the market there is no reason to purchase one that has any rust. And any rust is going to be an expensive fix.

Curved glass replacement is problematical and very expensive. Flat glass, particularly for windshields, is relavitely inexpensive and available at almost any glass shop.

If you really want a Crown or a Gillig, Pat Young in Fresno, CA is in the process of cornering the market on used Crown and Gillig Schoolcoaches. He always has a few available for sale for out of the state of CA, and I think he may have a couple of ten-wheelers available right now. And since almost every bus he has for sale came directly out of service in CA they are pretty much rust free.

Good luck.

Mark O.
Castle Rock, WA

[Dj]

Let me chime in here with my "me toos"

The DT466 is a heck of a good engine, and like Mark says, in a bus it probably won't be geared to go much faster than "the old speed limit". I don't know much about skoolies, but I do know something (not much) about differentials, and that is that almost every differential on the market and installed in every vehicle has a choice of alternative gears... for a price.

And with a DT466, you could probably get away with gearing for a little more top speed... but with the 7.3L, well, lets leave those for the Ford F250s and such.

Horsepower is nice, and many people don't know that horsepower is a function of RPM & Torque. Torque does the work, but horsepower is a measure of work done over time. Horsepower is typically what is used when you try to accelerate a vehicle. Torque is what actually moves you.

Diesels make GOBS of torque, but not much horsepower, because most of the (larger) diesels don't spin to a high RPM (if you ever look at a dyno curve, you'll see that the torque and HP curves cross right around 5252 RPM... thats cuz 5252 is one of the numbers in the horsepower equations) Most big torquey diesels don't spin much over 2500-3500 RPM before they hit redline, so to make big HP they have to make even bigger torque.

Those big 550 HP engines in the "big rigs" pump out quad-digit torque numbers at mind numbingly low RPMs... near idle speed!

So keep that in your mind when you consider what powerplant you're going to have in your bus... you'll thank yourself when taking it up that steep tight pass in the mountains.

Oh- and one more thing... again pitching in a "me too" on Mark's comment about the AT540 and similar auto trannies without a lock-up torque converter... when going down the other side of that steep mountain pass, with an auto-equipped bus that doesn't have a lock-up torque converter, well, you're going to be relying heavily (pun intended) on those big brakes... and if you're heavy enough and the pass is long enough, you might just find out what it's like to experience brake fade... or worse... the shoe linings may catch fire!!!!

Best o luck in finding your new bus, Larry! Keep us posted.