Bringing my new bus home

[Navservice]

Hey, I made it to Kingman without incident! From my previous fueling just north of the Grapevine (Wheeler Ridge) to my fuel stop in Adelanto (near Victorville) I'd covered 581 miles on 47.7 gals. That puts me at 12 MPG, I like that.

When I was climbing the Grapevine I noticed exhaust smoke in the headlights of the cars behind me. I've noticed it since then when the engine's working hard climbing hills. I wondered if it might have something to do with a lean mixture possibly caused by a clogged fuel filter so I changed it in Adelanto. The smoke did not go away but it seemed to me that I could make better time climbing hills in twelfth gear than before.

I've now seen the smoke in daylight and it's blue. I noticed the oil level was a gallon lower than when I started the trip 1000 miles earlier and I added the gallon in Adelanto. What would be considered normal oil consumption for the Cummins 220?

I've enjoyed driving the bus and I'm impressed by the performance but everywhere I look, I see more and more rust and that worries me. I know the parts are worth more than I paid for it but it is a unique bus and should maybe be restored. Well, for now it's parked in Kingman, I'll drive it just for fun and think about what I want to do with it.

Miles in Kingman

[captainkf]

be sure you have the right foundation (one you like, and trust) before putting the time and money it takes to do any type of conversion. They are very time consuming and expensive (even the cheap ones). However it does sound like you have a solid base, aside from the rust. Have you taken it to a shop to get an estimate on fixing the holes, or are you able to take care of some of it yourself? Rust happens, unless you are buying a very new bus. Consider what you paid, then what it will cost to have it in the condition you would like. Then compare that to buying another newer bus, does the math work out?

Good luck with it, I am very jelous of 12 mpg on a 40' bus.

-Richard

[Sharkey]

Miles, good to see that you had a safe (and apparently) enjoyable trip. As you found, fuel filter health affects power output of the engine. Strictly speaking, there is no "rich" or "lean" in a diesel engine. Typical air-to-fuel ratio at idle is 100:1 and full power is something like 20:1. Less fuel simply means less power and too much fuel (or too little air) is evidenced by black smoke.

A gallon of oil per 1k miles is pretty significant consumption. About the only way to diagnose this is to have a leak down compression check done. This will isolate the problem between piston rings and valve guides/seals. Having all that oil loitering in the cylinder walls of an engine laying on it's side can't help consumption in a worn motor much. In-frame rebuilds of the 220 pancake motors were very common. You should have no problem finding replacement parts for that particular engine, should you decide to freshen it up inside.

The rust is a different matter. I'd recommend getting rid of all the rusty metal and replacing it with wood!!!

[roasting8]

But then, you have to worry about termites

[Mark R. Obtinario]

If you were driving a Detroit Diesel a gallon in 1K miles would be par for the course. In a Cummins a gallon in 1K is significant, maybe.

Thirty years ago in some Gillig rear engine buses with the old C-190 engines we would use the first two quarts very quickly. The second two quarts took quite a bit longer to work themselves out.

The experience I had with my Crown with the 262 was the more I used her the less oil I used.

Before you get all excited about stuff, check to see if you have any leaks in hoses, gaskets, and fittings. That was where I found most of my oil leaks.

As far as the blue smoke is concerned, in my 262, after about 5k miles the blue smoke had pretty much disappeared.

I am glad you got yourself home without any incident.

Good luck on your find.

Mark O.
Castle Rock, WA

[Navservice]

Well, sort of a postscript, the bus is in Kingman and, rust aside (I wish), I'm very happy with it.

I found, during the trip, that my Cummins 220 is a very cold blooded beast. A few days after parking it in Kingman I tried to start it and ran the batteries dead. I returned the next day with a generator (no electricity nearby) and still had no luck until I stumbled upon three cans (two empty) of ether spray. Man, that stuff is worth it's weight! I've always been leery of using ether to start an engine, I'd always heard how much damage it can cause. After several sessions with the compression release worrying about burning up the starter, not to mention all the time spent recharging batteries, I can see why there was ether on hand.

Here are a few photos from the trip:

Give'er the works boys!

They told me the filter element for the coolant filter was no longer available. I had a new filter housing installed, here's the before and after:


After my etherial experience, I took the wife and stepdaughter on a Sunday outing from Kingman to Quartzite just because I could.

Yeah, I stopped along the way...


All in all, a 300 mile round trip that I probably enjoyed more than wifey. The bus performed beautifully and we met some really nice people, a great trip.

I'm heading out to work in a few days so this is probably the last I'll be writing for a while. Thanks everyone, for the info and encouragement.

Miles in Kingman

[Sharkey]

Glad to see you're having fun with it. In spite of the rust, that bus looks good in the photos!

That really is an ancient coolant filter. Interesting to see a non-turbo engine bay.

No ether isn't all that desireable, but the Cummins doesn't have glow plugs, so it has to crank over ~fast~ to build compression and heat for cold starting. Mine has a solenoid valve to give it a shot of ether if needed. The cannister looks like a Coleman camp stove bottle of propane and it screws to the valve upside down. The push button on the control panels is labeled "choke". Most times it will start without the gas, but other times I have to give it a little hit to get it going. It's not always dependant on outside temperature, either. I've started in the middle of winter after sitting for a month or two, and bang, it fires right up.

London Bridge, eh? I was there back in 1973 or so, right after they got done putting it back together. Now there's stop signals, paved parking lots, and power lines? Back then it was just this stone bridge over the river with nothing else around.

Come back and visit when you get the time, and thanks for the entertainment!

[captainkf]

That is a nice looking bus, I can't wait to see the progression. Take lots of photo's! It's nice as you progress through to look at the work you've accomplished as sometimes it feels like you never get very far.

-Richard

[peterb]

SO, did miles ever make it back to Kingman, or has his zip code changed to some intermediate point ? NalCool made by NALCO the chromate and borate additive folks from Lakewood ohio..google 'em. nalco maintains ph and lays a film of borate or chromate on your liner exterior to preclude aeration pitting, it also controls the demons within -aluminum-copper=cast iron-brass-rubber-and ethylene glycol and water we should all be using something similar . just wondering if this guy has a land stat locater and where he is today ?

[Dj]

Hey Navservice,

I'd love to see a video from the cab of you shifting that beast of a transmission.

Is that something you could provide?

[Navservice]

Wow, I'm surprised to see activity on this thread still. I'm at work, which almost always means I'm offshore somewhere and really out of contact.

I got the bus to Kingman without incident a little over three weeks ago. Since then, I've taken my wife and stepdaughter on a day trip and it turns out they liked it more than I thought. The bus has been cold blooded but otherwise trouble free.

Someone has taken to using the bus for target practice with a BB or pellet gun. So far ten shots have hit glass resulting in seven broken side windows, that's $1200 according to the local glass shop. That happened on two consecutive nights before I went to work. Sort of makes me want to shoot back...

I'm feeling in need of good karma so I'm thinking of volunteering to a local organization that is always looking for ways to get vets to the VA hospital in Prescott, about 150 miles away. I figure I've got room for plenty of them and we could even hit Costco while we're there.

Sharkey has a photo of a bus similar to mine that used to belong to Northern Arizona University. The guy (R.C.Bishop) that bought that bus is a frequent poster on busnuts.com. I checked his posts and found he bought the bus in 2001 and has since converted it. He lives in Las Cruces, NM and I'm thinking that's all the excuse I need for a trip with the bus. In a very old post, he was trying to sell the windows from his bus. I'm hoping he still has seven good ones (or more). I e-mailed him a few weeks ago but got no response.

Peterb, thanks for the info on Nalcool, I thought the guy was saying "Now Cool".

DJ, so far I've managed to avoid owning a video camera, maybe my wife could use her cell phone... Honestly, it wouldn't look any different than any other heavy duty transmission, it's driving it that's a pain. Still, I stand by this transmission, someday I'll get used to it. In the meantime, GPS tells me I'm doing 76 mph at 2000 rpm in 12th and I get 11-12 mpg, I really can't complain. R.C.Bishop claims his bus, with a Cummins 262 and a ten-speed, will do over 80 mph and he's probably right.

Communications will still be spotty while I'm working, I'll add an e-mail address to my profile,

Miles in Kingman (sort of)

[Phil Feinstein]

Miles, In a world where no good deed goes unpunished please contact your local DMV or insurance agent to make sure you aren't creating a situation that requires more insurance than what you have on the bus. In NJ, what you are suggesting would require "Livery" plates and in CO, there are similar restrictions for vehicles that carry more than 8 people that aren't related to you.

Since you have been driving OTR, I'm sure you have a CDL that *WAY* over qualifies you to do the actual driving. I'd just like to hear about you doing something good without it biting you back.

Good luck!

[Mark R. Obtinario]

The cost of insurance is what put the death knell to my bus company.

And providing transportation to people not related to you is a for hire business, even if you are not charging the people anything.

Unless you can lease your bus to some organization and let their insurance cover your vehicle you are looking at a $1K premium per month, minimum. And the odds of Lancer or any of the other bus insurance companies insuring anything over 15-years old is not very likely.

Good idea but the lawyers have taken most of the fun out of doing good.

Mark O.
Castle Rock, WA

[Navservice]

Thanks for the good advice, I will certainly check out insurance before I make any offers. The bus is registered as a motor home in California even though it is "garaged" in Arizona. Insurance is with Progressive as a commercial vehicle because of the size and weight of the bus. Nonetheless, there are many details of coverage I do not know enough about and the potential downside is great. I will check into specifics. I don't imagine there would ever be more than about five people but I really don't know anything about that either. I'm definitely not interested in making the bus a commercial vehicle. I'm told Lancer wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole...

As for no good deed going unpunished, thanks, I needed that. I'd completely forgotten about the truth of that statement.

Miles in Kingman

[Dj]

Hey Miles... Any progress with this bus?