Fun with the Phantom

[LuckyChow]

Thanks Jim. I have to agree 100% with all your comments. You're right, if I were making this for full timing, I would have done it differently. Later on tonight I'm going to post some comments on "things I did differently & why".

Regarding the price of retired transits, they can be had for basically the scrap value. Between low floor offerings and a high percentage of CNG engines, they don't bring much. The high floor transits are going to be really scarce really soon. A lot of them have already cycled out of the system. Off the top of my head, I don't think anyone makes a high floor model anymore. I know Gillig does not.

My Fancy Workshop (foreman on duty to make sure the work gets done to standards) Gosh, I really miss this little girl.

[LuckyChow]

The Lavatory

Their's not a lot to it, lol, but it's functional. Basically it sits straight across the hall from the toilet. The counter top is a remnant of the kitchen. I had it left over, so just decided to use it here as well. [This is a budget build, remember?] The sink is an Ambassador, which is the company that West Marine uses for their boat sinks. The cabinet is from Ikea and is a supposedly a look-a-like for cabinets that were once in trains somewhere. I thought it was just the ticket for my space. Since it is a surface mount, it was very easy to install.





The Shower

My shower is the next project I will be working on. I've got a lot of it done, but haven't installed any of the hardware or wall boards yet. The stainless floor pan is in and of course the walls. I'll have some pics of it soon. One thing that is very different about it is that the floor is sunken below the bus floor level. I put it in the old rear door stepwell. Since the A/C ducting is still in my bus, I had to drop it down to be allow for head room.

La Toilet'

At the minute I use a portable toilet. It's a very nice portable toilet that fastens to the floor and flushes. To be quite frank, it's not really much more trouble to empty than the conventional holding tank/hose combo. When I put it in, I thought I'd hate it. Turns out I don't at all. Actually, I would seriously consider keeping it if I wasn't going to put in a Nature's Head composting toilet. I've studied this quite a while and am thoroughly convinced on the composter. Too many people on sail boats and rvs love them after getting them. I would have put one in already, but those are expensive poopers at around $1,000. Maybe this summer. I've already run the electrical to the bathroom for the fan. Meanwhile, here is my current setup.

[LuckyChow]

A Frank Conversation About Generators

Generators typically are a love/hate item for RV's. You love having them for what they can do for you (air conditioning anyone?) but you hate them when it comes time to pay the piper. Exactly what is the pipers toll?
a) purchase price
b) maintenance
c) fuel
d) space to mount it
e) hooking up the electrical cabling and fuel lines.

I gave a lot of thought to this topic. What I came up with surprised even me a bit. When you get down to it, a diesel generator has a way of turning a budget build into an over-budget build. A good Onan Quiet Diesel will cost you $5,000 - $7,000. That's a lot of green backs. In the end I decided no to the generator. Here's the discussion that convinced me:

No generator. This won't work for everyone, maybe not even most, but it should work fine for me. Over several years of RV'ing, I've discovered that I don't go anywhere (as a destination) that doesn't have electrical hookups. Even though I had generators in my RV's, I just wouldn't go to a dog show without hookups. The reason was simple --------- it was too much cost.

If you haven't done the math yet, running a genset 24/7 takes a about 10 - 12 gallons of fuel every 24 hrs. That's around $40 -$50 of additional fuel every day. This greatly increases your weekend expense, not to mention the cost of those 150 hour maintenance intervals on the genset. Typically I'll be gone 3 days to a dog show. Start adding up the fuel cost, site rentals, generator fuel cost, and you've got yourself an expensive little weekend. It was for this reason that I never went to a show site that didn't have hookups. It's much cheaper to use the destination site's electric than to bring your own. Add to this the initial cost (and maintenance) of a genset and you're into a lot of dollars. To reduce expenses, I decided I can live entirely without a generator. To do so, you need a little up-front planning though. Here’s what I did:

a) I bought a bus with great air conditioning already built in. All buses have good A/C but transits have a huge air conditioner on them. They must have them to accommodate the constant open/closing of doors and a bus full of passengers. So, I kept my bus A/C in the conversion. You can hang meat in my bus while traveling during the summer. I frequently have to turn the thermostat up because I get too cold going down the road. There are trade-offs though. One down side of keeping the bus A/C is the duct work takes up conversion space, and A/C maintenance can be expensive if stuff goes wrong. You might have noticed my bus has no over head cabinets. It's because of my A/C duct work. But I am lucky that I have access to a lot of bus A/C expertise from my work should I need it.

b) I have roof top A/C units for when I'm parked. Plug in to the destination electrical source and you're set for the weekend. It comes at no additional expense to the site rental.

c) My Gillig has a 24 volt 270 amp alternator on it. This is about 7.5 Kw of electrical power when you consider that the output voltage is actually 28 volts, not 24. I have a 3Kw sine wave inverter and a suitable battery bank. If need be, I can run a rooftop A/C unit while the engine is running for emergency cooling. This is my backup plan if I’m on the road and the A/C goes out.

The one situation I cannot handle is summer boon docking. That's only practical for me in the early spring or late fall when temps are more moderate. After considering the generator expense and the tradeoffs of not having one, it was not a hard decision to make. I'm only having to give up summer boondocking to forgo the generator expense. If I was retired and this was my life long dream I probably would not make this decision. But, I'm not retired, I need to save for retirement, and it's not such a big tradeoff to me at the minute.

[LuckyChow]

Creshendo

Every great conductor knows you end the movement with a creshendo near the finale. So it is with bus threads too. It seems like only last week we started on this build. Hmmmmm -------- actually it was. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you've pretty much caught up with me on the build at this point. All the stuff I've shown you in a week actually took me two years to do. It was all weekend and evening work. So, without further ado, here is a picture blast of what the Gillig looks like now.























Shown below is Buddy Cakes (my short hair Chow) Just kidding. Buddy was a Labrador rescue I took in.


























I hope everyone enjoyed this build thread. Hopefully there will be something of value to you. I will continue to add as I do things, but it will not be at the pace of this past week! Building this bus has been a lot of fun and joy for me. I hope yours is the same.

Just remember . . . . .

[stuartcnz]

Great thread Darryl!
Just as Jim said, I would do it differently, if it were for me. For instance, I would not choose most of the colours that you did, but I have to say, that the way you put them together looks stunning.
Compost toilets, are another thing that don't appeal to me. Not really sure why, I think it has more to do with the language used to describe how they operate in practice. While I have no reason to think that they don't work as well as is claimed, I'm not so sure that the process is as explained.

Annie Hill, author of the book Voyaging on a Small Income, whom I have met, and trust implicitly in her judgment of such things (she has lived aboard yachts for what must be approaching 40 years now, and has used most every type of marine toilet there is), has recently installed a composting toilet on her yacht. here is a link to what she wrote about her experience: http://anniehill.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04 ... ts-it.html It certainly sounds like they work, once you get them figured out.

Incidentally, on British narrow boat forums, the debate on whether a cassette type toilet (as you currently have) or standard marine toilet with holding tank is better. The impression I get, is they seem fairly evenly divided on the issue, with both types being common for narrow boat liveaboards.

[somewhereinusa]

Very impressive build. I saw it on another site, but just went through it again. I am impressed how each project gets finished, I don't seem to work that way. Different skill sets I guess. I would never have installed my floor the way I did had I not seen your build.

Dick

[LuckyChow]

Thanks Stuart! I'm pleased you enjoyed it!

Colors are one of those things that are very personal to each beholder and taste vary widely. To that extent, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong way as long as it pleases the builder. Obviously if you were building something to sell, you would want a combination/look that appealed to a wide audience. If I were to put my color/build into a category, I'd call it "commercial looking" or "slightly industrial" to a degree.

Thanks for the link to Annie Hill's site. I'll go take a look at her posts on the CT. You mentioned the narrow boat forums in England. I just discovered those about 6 months ago ------ the boats, not the forum. I didn't know about narrow boats till one day I ran across Dan Brown's channel on Youtube. Since then, I've read a lot about them. It's an interesting variant of boating that reminds me of RV'ing somewhat. It's too bad we don't have something similar here in the States.

[LuckyChow]

Hi Dick! It's good to see you here! Thanks for the comment on the floor. I have to admit, one of my favorite things to do on these forums is to look at what other people did and how they are all so different. I've probably lifted quite a few ideas off of them! I want to take a look at your floor. I'll find your thread on it tonight.

[LuckyChow]

Dealing with Wheels

I've had quite an education on bus wheels as of late. I didn't know there were so many gottcha's on changing wheels, but it can be full of difficulites. Not to bore you with a lot of drivel, but in the last few months I've discovered:
1. wheels that look identical to my bus wheels, are the same dimentional size, but are from a truck, won't fit my bus at all
2. inversely, the wheels that fit my bus will not fit a class 8 truck
3. the wheel studs on my bus are made for a bus only and are a larger diameter than truck studs
4. no one in my area has a tool that presses out wheel studs while they are on the hub ---- companies do make them though

All this came about because I wanted to put some aluminum wheels on my bus. My steel wheels were loosing paint again. I had them painted two years ago, but the job was not done properly and the paint was coming off again. So I bought a set of used aluminum wheels off an RTS, which has the same hubs as my Gillig. These wheels fit properly (unlike a set of truck wheels I bought two years ago and discovered that truck wheels don't fit my bus). After some time researching the problem, it turns out the wheel studs on my bus only fit buses because they are a larger diameter than the typical class 8 truck. This is why the original aluminum wheels I bought off a truck wouldn't fit.

This time the wheel fit fine, but the studs were too short. I expected this problem so I had already bought new studs. I took the bus to a shop to get the studs changed because I don't have the right equipment to lift and remove bus wheels safely. This ended up being an all day job for them because they eventually had to pull the hubs to get the work completed. I only did the fronts right now. I'll save the rears for later. In the interim, I took two of the steel wheels to a powder coater and had them blasted and powder coated. They came out looking good, but almost twice as expensive as quoted by the blaster. I hope they hold up okay. I'm tired of dealing with wheels and hubs.

Part 2 of this "wheel makeover" was the hubs themselves. Mine had about 1,000,002 coats of paint on them and looked like crap. At first I was going to use paint stripper. When I got to looking at the coats of paint on them I knew I might possibly make a career out of removing it. Also, to do this properly, you would need to take off the wheel, something I cannot do right now. To make a long story short, I eventually had to take the bus to a sandblaster and have them blasted. The guy that did it said it was the toughest paint he'd seen in a long time. It took him much longer than he anticipated to complete all four. This also translates into "it cost me much more than I anticipated to complete the job". In the end, they were blasted. I drove it home and put self etching primer on and then painted the hubs.

At the minute, my front wheel hubs are painted white. As soon as I have the right equipment at home to lift and remove my wheels safely, I'll repaint the hub either black or silver. The original thought was to just buy a center cap for the wheels, but the wheel manufacturer no longer makes one for this wheel. It's a bus only wheel (low volume) and the new buses don't use this wheel any longer. Isn't it funny how the simpliest things turn into major ordeals?

Shown below old hubs and wheels




Replaced with these

[somewhereinusa]

Wheels look nice.
Here's a link to a picture of the floor probably more earlier.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/somew ... 18-23.html

[Mark R. Obtinario]

What an outstanding build!

I sold my Crown because I knew I would never get it converted well enough to please "she who must be obeyed". I was rather sad at the time.

When I see a build like yours I am humbled. I also know that I made the right decision to sell the bus and purchase something that was already to go camping.

I can live vicariously through your build while storing away ideas on how to make improvements on my Avion travel trailer.

Good luck and happy trails.

[Mark R. Obtinario]

I did have some questions for you.

Most people get rid of the 24-VDC system. I was wondering why you kept it.

I like the industrial/commercial look to your conversion. I would imagine not only is it space saving but it must save literally a ton in weight.

You haven't mentioned much about how you ran your house systems. Specifically the fresh water in and the waste water out.

I assume you do not normally have a co-pilot along for the ride. Do you have any plans for a co-pilot seat?

Your front entry looks to be pretty much stock. Did you retain the lift that was built into the front entry?

Again, I really like what you have done with your bus!

[LuckyChow]

I did have some questions for you.

Most people get rid of the 24-VDC system. I was wondering why you kept it.

I like the industrial/commercial look to your conversion. I would imagine not only is it space saving but it must save literally a ton in weight.

You haven't mentioned much about how you ran your house systems. Specifically the fresh water in and the waste water out.

I assume you do not normally have a co-pilot along for the ride. Do you have any plans for a co-pilot seat?

Your front entry looks to be pretty much stock. Did you retain the lift that was built into the front entry?

Again, I really like what you have done with your bus!

Mark, thank you for the nice compliments. There's a lot to be said for buying something ready to use. I think many people may already have an RV while they are building their bus. I guess for me, it wasn't just about having something to use, but also the process of doing the conversion that I like. I think it was extremely fun (and sometimes challenging) to come up with the ideas and then the execution. It's a hobby really; one with a great end result.

I'll try to answer your questions. The first one is about the decision to keep the 24 volt system. This is the easiest of all. Why would you want to get rid of it? There's almost nothing you can't get 24 volt now. Perhaps a portable GPS system may be about it. Even then, the bus chassis has a 12 volt system in addition to the 24 volt. Some of the dash stuff is 12 volt, the headlights, plus originally the radio system was too. Having a 24 volt system is a great advantage because your wiring can be much smaller. You can even get 24 volt water pumps. Plus, if you have a 24 volt system, you also have a 12 volt one too. All you need to do is tap one leg off your battery bank and use a Vanner unit. That was my plan all along if I needed 12 volts off my house bank. In the end, I didn't need it.

Regarding the weight of my build, I'm not sure where that is yet. Weighing the bus is on my short list. You really have to do that to set your tire pressure correctly. I would have already done that this spring if they hadn't closed the truck scales near my home. As it currently stands, I've got to drive 25 miles to the closest scales. I will do that in the next couple of weeks.

I haven't talked much about my water system yet because it isn't complete. My fresh water is all pex. I have all the sinks and waste plumbing completed, but the tanks are just now going in. I use it as is when in a campground. I have all the plumbing piped out and I just hook up a common garden hose to the sewer for the gray water. Lostranger actually picked up my fresh water tank today for me. The gray water tank will be next. This one will require a bit more planning due to the difficulty of building the supports for the tank.

No plans for co-pilot seat at this time. Family, friends, and guest must stay in the other areas of the bus while under transport.

I kept the lift for one year. I used it once when we had a kennel club meeting at one of the dog shows. One of our members is in a chair. Ultimately, I made the decision to remove it two months ago. I needed the space where the pump was located for other things and getting rid of the lift reduced the front weight by about 1,000 pounds. The lift platform was the entire bottom step. When I took it out, I had to remake the bottom step.

[LuckyChow]

Odd Jobs

Not the Bond kind, but an odd job none-the-less. If you don't get this allusion, you may be too young to read this.

I'm near the point of modifying my air bag sytem to utilize it for levelling when parked. I realize that the amount of levelling it can accomodate is limited, but between the front and rear there is some benefit to be had. I've bought valves and I have schematics from other bus nuts that have done the same. I'm still figuring out all the details on mine and where I will place the controls.

One of the things that I would like to utilize is the existing kneel and raise sytem already on the bus. This system works great, but a large drawback is the function is only temporary and there is no kneel on the rear. If I can simply make the front "not temporary" half the whole job is finished. I should be able to do this by inserting an electric valve in the air line between the air bag and the levelling valve. After you get the bus to the desired height simply close off the air valve to the bag. It should stay at this height for the duration of your visit, barring an air leak.

That brings me to tonight's topic. My kneel system is tied in electrically with my brake interlock system. They run off the same fuse. If you're not familiar with the interlock system on transit buses, It's a system that applies the brakes whenever you open the entrance door. It keeps the bus from rolling should the driver not apply enough pedal pressure. It also disables the accelerator pedal and interacts with the wheel chair lift system, but we aren't concerned with those two things.

I previously disabled my interlock by pulling the fuse to it. As an unintended consequence, it also disabled my kneel. So I needed to figure out another way to disable my interlock without disabling my kneel. You might be asking why I would want to disable my interlock, since it sounds like a good idea for the brakes to be applied whenever the door is open. In transit bus use this is probably true. In RV use, not such a good idea. If someone is directing you while backing, you can't move the bus when the door is open. If you're doing it by yourself, you may need to exit the bus multiple times and walk to the rear to make sure you're not too close to something or have gone too far back. Each time you do this you have to open and close the door to get the bus to move. This also creates a lot of brake applications and sounds like you're fanning the brakes, which is annoying to your camper neighbors. So, for RV use it's something you don't want or need.

Out comes the electrical schematic. I find the control valves for the interlock outside the bus in a cabinet under the drivers window. I go out and open the access door. There in plain view are the two electric valves that allow the air to flow to the front and rear brakes from the interlock system. This is going to be really simple. I only have to disconnect the electrical connector to the two valves to disable the brake interlock.

Shown below is the compartment where the air valves for the interlock system reside


A closer look before I cleaned it up. Gosh it's dusty and dirty in there.


A schematic on the door ----- very helpful


Here's one of the valves. This one is for the rear brakes. I've already disconnected it in this photo.



In two minutes the job is complete and we're back in business. The kneel system still works great and I have no brakes being applied everytime I open the door.

[LuckyChow]

I'll Take No. 6 Please

I thought it might be helpful to others to relate my recent transmission reprogramming experience for anyone with an Allison B-400. I know there are some MCI guys that have swapped Series 50's and Allison B-400 transmissions into their bus.

My bus has the Allison B-400 transmission. It operated it's whole transit life as a 5 speed, which the majority of transit systems seem to spec. This was just fine, as tansit buses typically don't do much high speed travelling. Even without a 6th gear, it easily hit 62 mph, which is where the road speed was set in the engine computer. After it was retired three years ago, I also operated it as a 5 speed, although it wasn't operated very much as the conversion was in full swing.

That was until two months ago. You see, the B-400 is really a six speed transmission. I can't remember all the ratios for every gear, but 6th gear in my transmission is shown to have an over drive ratio of .67 to 1 by my owners manual. That's quite an over drive. It does wonders to counter my 5.38 ratio rear end.

About two months ago I contacted my local Allison dealer and inquired about getting 6th gear activated. This is controlled electronically by the transmission computer and only requires reprogramming the computer. Allison was willing to do it, but only with an authorization letter from the manufacturer. It was explained to me that this was to protect themselves (and me) from over speeding drive train components and causing an accident. Apparently, there are some manufactueres that do not have components capable of handling the increased rpm they would experience.

I contacted my bus manufacturer, Gillig, in Hayward California. I was directed to their engineering department and was helped most graciously by one of their staff. Upon explaining the original owner, Volusia County Transit (aka Daytona Beach), no longer owns the bus and that it is used privately by myself, they kindly agreed to send me a letter authorizing Allison to reprogram the computer and activate 6th gear.

I received the letter electronically as an email attachment. The next day I took the letter to Allison, along with a spare transmission computer I have, and in a couple of days picked up my reprogrammed computer. While they were at it, I asked them to tweak the mode settings as well. The computer has two modes, economy and performance. Now, the default mode is economy (per my request) as I'm much more interested in better fuel economy than performance. I can easily switch it to performance by simply pressing the mode button on the fly. The difference between the two is the rpm where shifting occurs under full throttle.

Installing a WTEC III computer is a snap. There are three connectors that plug into the computer and you're done. After installing the reprogrammed computer, I took the bus out for a test drive and it performed beautifully. I haven't operated it enough to see how it affects fuel mileage yet, but I hope to soon. I'm hoping it'll give me at least one more mpg. Now at 65 mph, the engine is puttering along at a noticably slower rpm. I think I'll really like this change.

There's not much visually to see on this mod, other than the reprogramming sticker Allison put on my computer. The technician that did the programming added a bit of humor by what he named it. That's fine by me ---- we can all use a chuckle.