Tires and wheels

Discussions about all things to do with buses, trucks, and the homes made within them.

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Stealth Camper
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Tires and wheels

Post by Stealth Camper »

I have some tire questions to throw out and was wondering if there might be some insight to my dilemma. Bus - 1976 International 1600 with Dayton locking rim wheels and 8.25-20 tires on front, 9.00-20 on dual rears. Tires are shot.

Talking to my friendly neighborhood tire guy, I am told that I can get the 20 inch tires but getting to be more and more rare. I have thought about buying a parts truck just to get Budd wheel style axles and change them out. Downside is cost and huge waste of time that could be spent doing more productive things.

Tire guy says that wheel "adaptors" are available that would take my 20 inchers up to a 22.5" which would be great. He says that would also make them tubeless - even better. Measurements seem to show that the bigger tires would fit into the wheel well.

He says the replacement adapter 22.5" rims are open center and are made to fit on the old Dayton 5 spoke hub. This is the thing that I am wondering about - is that real?? Has anyone here ever done that?


I am seriously hoping that this does work because it makes life SOOO much easier in so many ways. And for the same RPM, I should get a couple MPH extra!!
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

I have no idea in the world as to what an adaptor would look like.

You can purchase tubeless rims that will fit your spoke wheels from any truck tire shop. You may be able to find good used rims at a truck jy.

9.00X20 tube type tire is the same tire size as a 10X22.5 tubeless tire. If you want to use the poor mans overdrive, if you have the right size of rims, you can go to 11X22.5 or 12X22.5 tires on the rear axle.

In order to swap axles to accept Budd wheels you are going to have to change a lot. If you don't have donor axles to swap in the cost is going to be prohibitive.

Not to impugn your tire guy, but if what he is saying has been related to us correctly, what he is saying is partially correct but mostly incorrect.

If your local tire guy is a car/light truck tire guy, find another tire guy who knows truck and bus tires. I know truck tire guys that know car tires but I have never found a car tire guy who really knew what he was talking about when it came to truck and bus tires.
Standaddy
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Post by Standaddy »

Yeah, what he said.
And, those tubeless rims that will fit your Dayton spokes can probably be had at your local truck salvage yard for near scrap price.
BTW, one of my favorite arguments in the old-truck crowd is the Dayton vs Budd one. The left-coast guys are mostly all Budd wheel fans, right-coast, and especially the north-east, is heavily spoke-wheel territory. Budd guys commonly call the spokes "artillery wheels", "cultivator wheels" and such. Spoke guys who know what they are doing can change a mounted tire/rim in a few minutes with no more than a 1/2" drive pull-handle, extension, and socket, and have it run as true as a Budd-mounted wheel/tire. There is a slight weight penalty for spokes vs aluminum Budds though.
Nowadays though, on modern trucks, I guess it's nearly all Budd's.
Sorry for rambling, just thinkin'.
Stan
Stealth Camper
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Post by Stealth Camper »

Tire guy is the authorized Bridgestone big truck tire dealer in northeast Oklahoma. Goodyear dealer said almost the same thing.

I think they are talking about Accuride wheels. Not the hub piloted ones - demountables. I look at their catalog and see the 15 degree wheels I think they are talking about, but the profile looks too low to fit the spoke and still be large enough diameter to fit the tire.

BTW, I realize I am throwing around some jargon here - trying to learn and then use the correct terms - but I don't really have complete understanding yet.

Edit addition; I may just let them do the fronts - they are saying $100 each for the wheels (plus tires) and that is certainly higher than I would expect at truck salvage, but I think it may be worth it to me for "proof of concept". Tuition cost.

I am just crazy enough to try to do the rest of them myself, if I can be sure it works the way I hope.
Stealth Camper
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Post by Stealth Camper »

Wrong word...not an adaptor. They call it a 22.5 dayton wheel.
graydawg
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Post by graydawg »

Stealth I know what you are talking about the 22.5 are made to run on the newer spoke type wheels just like the old ones but they are 22.5 and not 20 they are made to run on special ordered big trucks where you can run more weight on the front axle, it seem like it is 18k on this type wheel / axle combo you will not find it on normal 18 wheelers, just those spec out for extream heavy hauling they are becoming more frequent as more folks are doing heavy haul NOW as to whether on not they will interchange and fit the older stuff DON"T KNOW
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

The only difference between wheels that fit 20" tires and 22.5" tires is the former is a split ring/rim design for tube type tires and the later is designed for tubeless tires. The inside diameter is exactly the same.

The spokes themselves haven't changed. Ever.

You can take the wheels off of a IHC K-6 from pre-WWII and they will fit a 2010 IC bus if it has spoke wheels.

Yes there are newer style wheels out there that will fit the newer style tires. But the original question had to do with 9.00X20 and 8.25X20 tires. Those can swap to a 22.5" tubeless rim and fit 10X22.5 tires very easily. I have done it more than a couple of times over the years.
Stealth Camper
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Post by Stealth Camper »

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, Mark!!

That is exactly what I was hoping to hear!! You have made my weekend. Now all I have to do is implement!


Quick side question; I have 5 spoke. I have seen pictures of 6 spoke. That must be for heavier applications??
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

The number of spokes doesn't automatically mean the axles are built for heavier loads.

I have seen six spoke wheels on Loadstars that were lighter duty than a set of five spokes on a newer heavier duty Loadstar.
Stealth Camper
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Post by Stealth Camper »

When I get some free time, I will go back through the manuals and see if I can find any info about the load ratings. I was able to get a complete set when I bought the bus. I was amazed it could still be had.

There is also a lug bolt on one spoke that is broken, so will have to replace that, too.
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

It shouldn't be that hard to get the broken bolt out. That is unless the vehicle has spent a lot of time where they use salt on the road. If that is the case you are really going to need luck getting the broken part out of the spoke.

The spoke is cast and it is very hard and the bolts aren't nearly as hard.

If you have enough to get a pipe wrench on it you may luck out. If it is broken off flush with the spoke you may be able to use an easy out. If that doesn't work you may have drill it. Or worst case you may have to get a hot wrench and burn it out.

Regardless, you would be smart to retap the hole once you get the old bolt out.

IIRC, the threads that go into the spoke are coarse thread.
Stealth Camper
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Post by Stealth Camper »

Thanks, Mark. If I have to, I will find a new spoke.

It has spent most of its life here in Oklahoma. We use salt and the other stuff (calcium ??) but it is fairly sparse. Will get two or three big ice storms a year, then it washes off with the next rain so usually isn't too bad. 'Course, this bolt broke....
Jones'n4chrome
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Post by Jones'n4chrome »

Stealth Camper
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Post by Stealth Camper »

I won't do any of that with the spokes still on the bus. I am not flexible enough to work near the ground like that and I have a metal table just for torch/welding work.

I am more likely to use the drill and tap approach anyway. While I do have a torch, the drilling method may lead to another excuse...er, uh, reason to buy a tool of some sort.

And I am all about the tool experience.
rlaggren
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Post by rlaggren »

I believe it's SOP for any good welder to tack on an extension to the broken bolt that you can put a wrench on. The heat also help to loosen up the threads. Or you can finish the "extension" down flat w/a grinder and have a good surface to center punch and drill out.

Rufus
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