Item number: 250554968523
This is an extremely rare 1963 Crown Bus that was custom built Crown Coach Corporation of Los Angeles, California by Embree buses of Pasadena california (See story from Alvin Embree below. This bus is #63, the third of nine actual production units after the prototype #60). The coach features Air Brakes, an Automatic Transmission, CAVERNOUS BAGGAGE COMPARTMENTS underneath EXTREMELY RARE AIR SUSPENSION and been repowered with a Detroit Diesel Fuel Pincher 8.1 Litre Engine.
If you're looking for a bus to make your own motor home conversion this is it! This coach starts, runs and the brakes stop it. I can't drive it very far due to registration and insurance issues...Newer laws want to take your unregistered vehilce to an impound lot and send you to the poor House to get it back!
NOTE: SPEEDOMETER HAS BEEN CHANGED SEVERAL TIMES. ESTIMATED MILEAGE IS WELL OVER 300,000 AND NO REPRESENTATION IS MADE.
Ths story from Al Embree tells more about the bus than I ever could:
This story was an Email from Alvin Embree, the original owner of Embree Buses- (read the very interesting email story on the auction site!)
Very Unique Crown bus on EbayMotors- Check it out!
Moderator: TMAX
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Jones'n4chrome
- Posts: 778
- Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:10 pm
More info on the bus. And then will be the photos.
#60 was a hand made piece of equipment and was used as a test bed for ideas before we (Embree's) gave the final O.K. for the balance of the group.
To begin with, we demanded under floor baggage space, hence the engine had to go in the rear. Away with Hall Scott's and gas jobs #60 originally has a Cummins engine in it and for a short time a Caterpillar was involved, but I do not recall the series of Cat or Cummins. These engines were located in the rear and I drove the Cummins quite a bit trying to get some of the teething problems out of it. The problem with it was with vibration, which was intolerable, also it was a bit under powered for what we figured would be the final GVW. There were also some space problems that Ray worked out, but with considerable engineering. It just never seemed to "fit right."
About this time, Detroit came out with the V6-53 series engine, so #60 was refitted with one hooked to the Allison transmission. The union of these two units seemed to fit nicely and stuck for the rest of the order.
The body situation was somewhat standard for Embree equipment of that era, that is, it was on air-ride, had the extremely high volume under floor heater system, inside removable baggage racks, removable rear seat as well as right side rear side door at the rear seat. The first two rows of seats in the rear were also Embree design and quickly removable. The under floor baggage racks had more cubes
space than on the then Greyhound Cruisers. Put all this baggage space together and with a full load of kiddies going to summer camp, I am sure that we were frequently well over the legal per axle limit, but no one ever checked.
The philosophy of my Dad and continued on until we sold the business, was that no baggage was to go on the roof, which most of our competitors of that day were doing.
With the air suspension, whatever the load factor was, the vehicle always rode at the same ground level. They did a lot of hissing when you off loaded them and sometimes the passengers would call this to the drivers attention, saying something like "what's that funny noise coming from the front tire?" The basic ride on this series was very cushy, but stable.
Early experience with the Allison, was this. It was five speed, going first to a converter, then to lockup, then shifted up to the next converter position etc. It was the first of a series that Allison produced. The 53 series Detroit was also a first at that time. Both these units were produced and used in the then latest US Army Personnel Carrier and consequently there were quite a number produced. Of course, both of these units became very standard for many uses after their first introduction, but we got some of the very first. As I recall, the original prototype 60 was to have the Detroit in it, but because of lack of availability of them (the Army had priority on the first ones) Ray Hartman tried the Cummins engine, for a short time a Cat, but the Detroit finally became available.
Keep in mind that the prototype was around for over 6 months, with lots of fussing and trying this and that, to get the final product.
One of the problems with the Allison was this. As we wanted a low range first gear for mountain work, there was a physical lockout detinet on the transmission control, that would prevent the driver from an accidental shift into the low range without going through a detent. Low range converter was about 6 MPH at top of tach and in lockup, not a bunch more than that.
About 4 months experience into the total 60's series, one night one of the 60's was north bound on Rosemead Blvd. with an athletic team returning to Pasadena High School or maybe Muir, I do not remember. At the Santa Fe RR underpass just north of Colorado Blvd. The driver said there was a loud bang, then all power quit. The engine stopped running and the driver could not get a restart. I got the call and got another bus out there right away, then had the nonfunctioning bus towed to the shop.
The following morning there was lots of consternation about why it could not get started, and lots of conjecture. The starter turned but things sounded funny to me. The conjecture was, pull the injectors and see if something is going on there. I said "Drop the Pan" but was over ruled by the greasy hands types. They kept fussing and trying different stuff and I said, "drop the pan and see what is going on"
They finally did and found the pan completely filled with little pieces of metal, none larger than a walnut.
Still conjecture as to what had happened with great debate going on. For some reason, I thought I had it figured out, and it finally turned out that I was right.
For some reason, the Allison inadvertently shifted into the low range which overspend the engine something ferocious. This occurred at about 40 MPH road speed. I have no idea what the final Rpm's were before the thing finally destructed internally, physically breaking all the rods which pushed everything down into the crankshaft, which ground everything up, including some of the pistons.
The engine was rebuilt with much finger pointing at the driver. Why would he ever pull the trans down into the low range, going past the detent, at 40 MPH? I was told to take corrective action against the driver, but I told Glenn that he was crazy, that the driver said he did not do that and I figured there was no earthly reason for him to do so, and anyway he was a very conscientious person.
There was much unhappiness amongst the family toward me, but what the heck, that was nothing new, and machines do fail but nothing could be proven. Somewhat after this, there were other occasions where the Allison seemed to downshift without apparent reason, and sure enough, another engine ate itself. This time they did not argue with me when I said "Drop the pan."
I was getting rather upset with this whole situation and demanding that someone get some answers from Allison. You guess it, total denial from them. They said the Detroit blew its self up, something like committing suicide. The symptoms continued on an infrequent basis, when Lo and Behold, one day the chief engineer form Allison came by with a newly designed internal control plumbing system for the transmission(s) for the entire 60 series, no charge to us.
Hmmmm, sounds like maybe they found out that where were flukes in design which had to be corrected, but they never did accept responsibility for our two engines that ate themselves.
No more transmission problems.
The bodies on the 60 series were standard Embree stuff for that era, that is, removable inside overhead baggage racks, right side rear door, removable rear seat with quick remove two pair of seats forward from the rear seat, Humongous fresh-air heating system with inside ducts running the length of the vehicle with air outlets along the wall side floor panels as well as up through the seat stantions. (Shades of ACF Brill here) These stanchions were hollow aluminum and connected to the main duct running underfloor. These stanchions were nifty in
that the floor was much easier swept as there were not a bunch of tubular legs holding the seat in position. The wall side of the seats were fastened to a rail running along the wall which eliminated the then standard tube leg fasteners.
The heater core was much larger than a standard automobile radiator core and was ducted to the outside for fresh air, with a bypass diverter that allowed either outside air or inside air only. This whole setup was real nice for keeping the windows from fogging up on the inside on a cold wet day.
All the 60's had curved windshields, which again were standard Embree features starting with our #47 and up. In fact all this body design, side radiator, fresh air heater, air suspension, curved windshield, inside removable baggage racks, right side rear door for baggage, etc., was standard Embree from #47 up, except for the variable pitch fan and side radiator configuration, which became standard on all our equipment from # 37 up.
This side radiator with a variable pitch fan was an innovation of Embree's after we received #33 through 36 which were front end radiators. The front end radiators were marginal in the mountain summer camp work and barely adequate. When we found out about the variable pitch equipment, Dad told MM Brockway that he would not accept any more Crowns unless they had the side radiators. MM
bitched and hollered but Dad insisted and prevailed. After we received #37-38-39, MM saw the handwriting on the wall they became standard on all Crowns from then on. They became a Crown selling point with their sales people saying that this was one of their innovations!!
The variable-pitch fans were great and saved a lot of horsepower when the engine was cool and you did not need to move a lot of air, but unfortunately the manufacturer went out of production so Crown had to go to a fixed pitch fan using shutters for temperature control.
Well, you pretty much know the rest. It seems that I am rambling a bit, so please excuse the non-structured thoughts. They just flowed out as I thought about them.
Retirement is the pits, so I go over to the Embree Bus lot frequently, just to stand in back of an idling diesel to get my morning "fix." It works better than a cup of coffee for me!!.
Some of the folks there are wanting me to write up a history of the Company and some of the juicy stuff that went on. Maybe someday I will while I can still remember it. Also, I have a bunch of old photos I took in the late 40's through the 60's of most of the buses in the fleet in that era. Guess I need to dig through the basement and find that stuff. Like, I should have a shot of a Kenworth bus that we had for a while. A real sweetheart to drive and a one of a kind thing.
#60 was a hand made piece of equipment and was used as a test bed for ideas before we (Embree's) gave the final O.K. for the balance of the group.
To begin with, we demanded under floor baggage space, hence the engine had to go in the rear. Away with Hall Scott's and gas jobs #60 originally has a Cummins engine in it and for a short time a Caterpillar was involved, but I do not recall the series of Cat or Cummins. These engines were located in the rear and I drove the Cummins quite a bit trying to get some of the teething problems out of it. The problem with it was with vibration, which was intolerable, also it was a bit under powered for what we figured would be the final GVW. There were also some space problems that Ray worked out, but with considerable engineering. It just never seemed to "fit right."
About this time, Detroit came out with the V6-53 series engine, so #60 was refitted with one hooked to the Allison transmission. The union of these two units seemed to fit nicely and stuck for the rest of the order.
The body situation was somewhat standard for Embree equipment of that era, that is, it was on air-ride, had the extremely high volume under floor heater system, inside removable baggage racks, removable rear seat as well as right side rear side door at the rear seat. The first two rows of seats in the rear were also Embree design and quickly removable. The under floor baggage racks had more cubes
space than on the then Greyhound Cruisers. Put all this baggage space together and with a full load of kiddies going to summer camp, I am sure that we were frequently well over the legal per axle limit, but no one ever checked.
The philosophy of my Dad and continued on until we sold the business, was that no baggage was to go on the roof, which most of our competitors of that day were doing.
With the air suspension, whatever the load factor was, the vehicle always rode at the same ground level. They did a lot of hissing when you off loaded them and sometimes the passengers would call this to the drivers attention, saying something like "what's that funny noise coming from the front tire?" The basic ride on this series was very cushy, but stable.
Early experience with the Allison, was this. It was five speed, going first to a converter, then to lockup, then shifted up to the next converter position etc. It was the first of a series that Allison produced. The 53 series Detroit was also a first at that time. Both these units were produced and used in the then latest US Army Personnel Carrier and consequently there were quite a number produced. Of course, both of these units became very standard for many uses after their first introduction, but we got some of the very first. As I recall, the original prototype 60 was to have the Detroit in it, but because of lack of availability of them (the Army had priority on the first ones) Ray Hartman tried the Cummins engine, for a short time a Cat, but the Detroit finally became available.
Keep in mind that the prototype was around for over 6 months, with lots of fussing and trying this and that, to get the final product.
One of the problems with the Allison was this. As we wanted a low range first gear for mountain work, there was a physical lockout detinet on the transmission control, that would prevent the driver from an accidental shift into the low range without going through a detent. Low range converter was about 6 MPH at top of tach and in lockup, not a bunch more than that.
About 4 months experience into the total 60's series, one night one of the 60's was north bound on Rosemead Blvd. with an athletic team returning to Pasadena High School or maybe Muir, I do not remember. At the Santa Fe RR underpass just north of Colorado Blvd. The driver said there was a loud bang, then all power quit. The engine stopped running and the driver could not get a restart. I got the call and got another bus out there right away, then had the nonfunctioning bus towed to the shop.
The following morning there was lots of consternation about why it could not get started, and lots of conjecture. The starter turned but things sounded funny to me. The conjecture was, pull the injectors and see if something is going on there. I said "Drop the Pan" but was over ruled by the greasy hands types. They kept fussing and trying different stuff and I said, "drop the pan and see what is going on"
They finally did and found the pan completely filled with little pieces of metal, none larger than a walnut.
Still conjecture as to what had happened with great debate going on. For some reason, I thought I had it figured out, and it finally turned out that I was right.
For some reason, the Allison inadvertently shifted into the low range which overspend the engine something ferocious. This occurred at about 40 MPH road speed. I have no idea what the final Rpm's were before the thing finally destructed internally, physically breaking all the rods which pushed everything down into the crankshaft, which ground everything up, including some of the pistons.
The engine was rebuilt with much finger pointing at the driver. Why would he ever pull the trans down into the low range, going past the detent, at 40 MPH? I was told to take corrective action against the driver, but I told Glenn that he was crazy, that the driver said he did not do that and I figured there was no earthly reason for him to do so, and anyway he was a very conscientious person.
There was much unhappiness amongst the family toward me, but what the heck, that was nothing new, and machines do fail but nothing could be proven. Somewhat after this, there were other occasions where the Allison seemed to downshift without apparent reason, and sure enough, another engine ate itself. This time they did not argue with me when I said "Drop the pan."
I was getting rather upset with this whole situation and demanding that someone get some answers from Allison. You guess it, total denial from them. They said the Detroit blew its self up, something like committing suicide. The symptoms continued on an infrequent basis, when Lo and Behold, one day the chief engineer form Allison came by with a newly designed internal control plumbing system for the transmission(s) for the entire 60 series, no charge to us.
Hmmmm, sounds like maybe they found out that where were flukes in design which had to be corrected, but they never did accept responsibility for our two engines that ate themselves.
No more transmission problems.
The bodies on the 60 series were standard Embree stuff for that era, that is, removable inside overhead baggage racks, right side rear door, removable rear seat with quick remove two pair of seats forward from the rear seat, Humongous fresh-air heating system with inside ducts running the length of the vehicle with air outlets along the wall side floor panels as well as up through the seat stantions. (Shades of ACF Brill here) These stanchions were hollow aluminum and connected to the main duct running underfloor. These stanchions were nifty in
that the floor was much easier swept as there were not a bunch of tubular legs holding the seat in position. The wall side of the seats were fastened to a rail running along the wall which eliminated the then standard tube leg fasteners.
The heater core was much larger than a standard automobile radiator core and was ducted to the outside for fresh air, with a bypass diverter that allowed either outside air or inside air only. This whole setup was real nice for keeping the windows from fogging up on the inside on a cold wet day.
All the 60's had curved windshields, which again were standard Embree features starting with our #47 and up. In fact all this body design, side radiator, fresh air heater, air suspension, curved windshield, inside removable baggage racks, right side rear door for baggage, etc., was standard Embree from #47 up, except for the variable pitch fan and side radiator configuration, which became standard on all our equipment from # 37 up.
This side radiator with a variable pitch fan was an innovation of Embree's after we received #33 through 36 which were front end radiators. The front end radiators were marginal in the mountain summer camp work and barely adequate. When we found out about the variable pitch equipment, Dad told MM Brockway that he would not accept any more Crowns unless they had the side radiators. MM
bitched and hollered but Dad insisted and prevailed. After we received #37-38-39, MM saw the handwriting on the wall they became standard on all Crowns from then on. They became a Crown selling point with their sales people saying that this was one of their innovations!!
The variable-pitch fans were great and saved a lot of horsepower when the engine was cool and you did not need to move a lot of air, but unfortunately the manufacturer went out of production so Crown had to go to a fixed pitch fan using shutters for temperature control.
Well, you pretty much know the rest. It seems that I am rambling a bit, so please excuse the non-structured thoughts. They just flowed out as I thought about them.
Retirement is the pits, so I go over to the Embree Bus lot frequently, just to stand in back of an idling diesel to get my morning "fix." It works better than a cup of coffee for me!!.
Some of the folks there are wanting me to write up a history of the Company and some of the juicy stuff that went on. Maybe someday I will while I can still remember it. Also, I have a bunch of old photos I took in the late 40's through the 60's of most of the buses in the fleet in that era. Guess I need to dig through the basement and find that stuff. Like, I should have a shot of a Kenworth bus that we had for a while. A real sweetheart to drive and a one of a kind thing.
Last edited by Rudy on Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Very nice Crown ...
Thanks for the pics Rudy ...
Now where's that winning lotto ticket ... damn ...
And the history, that's as rare as the bus ...
My bus has nothing in common but the driver's seat. When I got my bus it had a wooden kitchen chair as the driver's seat, so I went to the local city bus yard to try and find a replacement. A hand looked around and dug one up from a shed, had no idea what it was out of, not currently standard, sold it to me for $20.
Excactly the same as in the picture, 'cept mine needs new upholstry again.
What I like is, if you lift it beyond the floor support and ratcheting lift mechanism the whole seat spins 360 degrees and is the same height as my built in seat over my freshwater tank ... forms a great L shaped settee. I have a removeable table for the set up but prefer the room, unless I have that Okinawan sword dancer over for dinner ... then it comes out afterwards anyway.
I have to pull the steering wheel and hang it on the steering post ... easy to do. And the settee can be pulled into a second bed if necessary, using the driver's seat.
Who'd have thought I'd have so much to say about a seat
... but I love the thing, and now I'm closer to it's heritage ... go figure, go Crown 
Doug
Now where's that winning lotto ticket ... damn ...
And the history, that's as rare as the bus ...
My bus has nothing in common but the driver's seat. When I got my bus it had a wooden kitchen chair as the driver's seat, so I went to the local city bus yard to try and find a replacement. A hand looked around and dug one up from a shed, had no idea what it was out of, not currently standard, sold it to me for $20.
Excactly the same as in the picture, 'cept mine needs new upholstry again.
What I like is, if you lift it beyond the floor support and ratcheting lift mechanism the whole seat spins 360 degrees and is the same height as my built in seat over my freshwater tank ... forms a great L shaped settee. I have a removeable table for the set up but prefer the room, unless I have that Okinawan sword dancer over for dinner ... then it comes out afterwards anyway.
I have to pull the steering wheel and hang it on the steering post ... easy to do. And the settee can be pulled into a second bed if necessary, using the driver's seat.
Who'd have thought I'd have so much to say about a seat
... but I love the thing, and now I'm closer to it's heritage ... go figure, go Crown Doug
-
Bestekustoms/MrBreeze
Crown
Well Guys...I Bought The Eagle 60 Series... I Am Going To Get It Next Week. I Can Hardly Wait. !!!
I Will Join And Post More On The Bus Once I Return. I Also Bought The Tandem Axle Crown In California And Am Picking It Up Also. I Plan To Have Both Buses At Quartzite Az. Then Back To Denver With My NEW Toys..
Take Care. And Please Dont Get As Sick As I Am.. BUS NUTTS.
JOHN
MR Breeze
Bestekustoms
I Will Join And Post More On The Bus Once I Return. I Also Bought The Tandem Axle Crown In California And Am Picking It Up Also. I Plan To Have Both Buses At Quartzite Az. Then Back To Denver With My NEW Toys..
Take Care. And Please Dont Get As Sick As I Am.. BUS NUTTS.
JOHN
MR Breeze
Bestekustoms
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