ready for a change

[newbie]

hello, first off let me introduce myself and give you a little background on myself, where im at currently and what i am trying to achieve.
My name is Ben Richard, im 27 yrs old. my wifes name is Jen, she is 26 and my daughters name is Anastasia, she is 4 months old. An unfortunate series of events and misfortunes about 6 yrs ago landed my butt in the united states airforce. dont get me wrong, it wasnt all bad. ive met alot of great ppl, have seen some very interesting things, yadda yadda. But now it is a time for change. We really dont want our daughter growing up in a cmpletely consumer driven world, we want to live more simple then we are now and have already started downsizing to prepare for our next chapter in life. So heres the deal, in exactly one year i will be able to leave the airforce. We will be debt free minus 2 small school loans with small payments and small interest rates, we wont have much other then that.....well being debt free IS alot to us. So basically we will have an opertunity for some drastic changes weever have again so we want to make the right decision. At first we where going to try an buy some property and homestead it, live in a yurt or build a cheaper alternative style home, but after thinking it over we realized that we where not ready to settle down somewhere permanately quite yet. thats when we thought about a small RV working for awhile and then hitting the road. then i remeber talking to some ppl at a grateful dead show many yrs ago about bus living and how intrigued i was about that......being 14 at the time it seemed way to far off for serious thought tho....so thats when Jen and i started looking into bus living and we are positive this is the route we want to take. The problem is we really dont know ANYTHING about building one, nor do we know anyone who has done this sort of thing. So i guess our tenetive plan is going to be
1. Get out of the military
2. Get a job somewhere
3. Rent the SMALLEST APT possible
4 Buy a bus and commence to fixing it up to live in
5. Start enjoying life
Ok i Have a few questions. One is where would you guys recomend us moving to? is there a town u know of that have a a cpl of like minded ppl we could rely on for minor help in the construction of new home and also be able to get a "decent" job to finance this venture?
Two is what is the average cost build one of these bad boys. how long? i guess how long would depend on our motivation eh? What are some common mech hardships? logistical probs? id love to talk to someone over the phone who actually has some good advice who is walkin the walk, im not doing this for some kind of hobby, the wife and i really want this to be a way of life, ive already read ALOT on this so im just trying to get my ducks in a row so i can make some responsible decisions for a slightly irresponsible lifestyle change...at least thats what the mainstream would want you to think. if anyone would be willing to chat over the phone pls email me at ststephen65 (at) yahoo (dot) com or just reply here ...thanks in advice

[captainkf]

Wow, big step. Good for you in being pro-active in the direction of your life. I don't live in my bus, however I did convert a 36' long bluebird schoolbus into an rv, twice. There are no hard and fast rules for the costs other than they always cost more than you budget for. They are allot of work and must be considered a labour of love.

I don't want to sound negative. It's a very satisifying process, however people tend to bite off more than they can handle. Wanting all the best stuff, and either running out of money or energy because they can't finish their conversion.

Have you considered buying an already converted bus? There are so many on ebay. You would spend considerably less if you bought one that was 3/4's finished and completed it yourself. Just a thought. If I were to do it again I would consider it an option.

I spent aprox $15,000 on my bus including purchase, mechanical work on conversion. I did all the work myself and I am still tinkering with it. Here is a link to see what I have done.

http://www.skoolie.net/gallery/v/Skooli ... Doodlebus/


Here are a few sites, some of which may be new to you, of people who have done what you are proposing.

http://www.geocities.com/capttrips25/

This one is especially interesting and is quite honest about the challenges and costs:

http://virtualplacebo.com/bus/



http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/busses/

an interesting lifestyle site:

http://cheaprvliving.com/Howtoliveinaboxvan.html

http://www.ericandlucie.com/Bus/bus.htm

A schoolbus conversion forum:

http://www.skoolie.net

Good luck and keep us posted with what you decide.

-Richard

[Mark R. Obtinario]

You have started out correctly by asking questions first and then starting out on your project.

The number one thing to remember when you are deciding upon which vehicle platform you are going to purchase is spend the $$$ for the best platform you can afford.

Regardless of which type of platform you choose, the "truck" underneath it all is the most expensive part of the project. If the "truck" dies, your whole project is dead in the water.

Spending more $$$ for a better platform will end up costing you less in the long run. The expense and headache of major repairs to the power package is not something any of else like to contemplate.

Good luck on your quest.

Mark O.
Castle Rock, WA

[newbie]

hey guys, thanks for the replies and thanks for the really good links. about the platform...yeah i fig that would be my most important purchase. i would REALLY like to go vintage but i know how that can go....my old 1970 vw bus was a money pit...so since its going to be our "house" and not just a rec vehical i think im going to have to go with somethin newer. im thinkin about going the school bus route. what would you guys reomend? what are the different types of popular platforms out there?

[Mark R. Obtinario]

Buses come in three different types, each designed and built for a specific purpose--there is no one-size-fits-all bus out there. Remember, whichever type you choose it will be a compromise.

The three basic types are school buses, transit buses, and highway coaches. Each of those types can be further broken down into small, medium, large, and huge.

Again, each was built for specific purpose and trying to make one do something else is not always a good idea.

Since you are interested in the school bus, they come in Type 'A', 'B', 'C', and 'D'. For the purposes of this discussion, don't even consider the Type 'A' and 'B' buses because they are built on glorified 1-ton pick-up/van chassis that are not up to the weight carrying capacity for which you most likely be looking.

The Type 'C' is distinctive because it has a truck hood sticking out front. This bus will be the least expensive to purchase because it is the most common type of bus out there. More Type 'C' buses are built than all of the other types of buses combined. Of these the most common is built on a chassis built by IHC/Navistar/I-C. Common also equates with not a lot of $$$.

The Type 'D' is what is also known as a transit style bus. The engine compartment is totally inside of the bus in one of three places: front, middle, or rear. For whatever reason, the bus manufacturers charge $10-20K more for the exact same bus with the same engine in the rear of the bus over the the engine in the front. Even more expensive were the mid-engine buses built by Crown and Gillig.

What you decide to purchase is totally up to you. What you decide to do with your bus will determine more than anything else what type of bus you need to purchase for your platform. If you are not going to be moving very often or not moving very far a Type 'C' bus with a top speed of 55 MPH or less would be a good choice. Also, if you are going to want to go out into the boonies on a lot of bad, unimproved roads the Type 'C' is still the best choice--high ground clearance and the availability of front driven axles if you really want to get crazy. On the other hand, if you are going to be doing a lot of traveling on the interstate system a Type 'D' with a high HP diesel engine with highway gearing would be a better choice.

The price you will have to pay for a bus is in direct proportion to the age and condition of the bus.

Modern diesel engines and overdrive automatic transmissions will result in comfortable crusing speeds with relatively low fuel consumption: 10-12 MPG. Older non-computer controlled power packages may not have as much HP and may use more fuel to go the same distance but the cost of repair is much lower when things go wrong. Plus, you can go a lot of miles at 7-9 MPG before you will ever pay off the difference between an old style and a modern style power package.

Certain power packages should be avoided. The Cummins 555, IHC 9.0L, DD 8.2L, and GM Toroflow/6.2L are best reserved for doorstops or boat anchors. The big block gas engines are easy engines on which to work. Anyone who has kept a VW bus running for any amount of time has the tools and skills to keep a big block gas engine working. The real problem to the gas engines is unless it is a GM big block the parts and pieces to keep them happy are becoming harder to find every day. IHC stopped making their engines in the mid-80's and Ford stopped making their's in the early 90's. Be aware of the fact the big block engines used in school buses over the last 25-30 years are in no way related to the big block gas engines used in vans, pick-ups, or police vehicles of the same period.

Allison makes great transmissions but the AT 500 series is not a very heavy duty transmission. It does not have much hold back on down grades which means you have to ride the service brakes a lot harder on downgrades. If you always drive on the flat and don't weigh very much you shouldn't have any problems. Climb a few hills and cram the bus full of stuff and pull a trailer as well and you will be asking for trouble.

Prices for good servicable used school buses with good rubber all the way around can vary from just a few hundred $$$ to many thousands of $$$.

I purchased a 1979 Crown A-426T-11 for $650.00. I have put a set of tires and a relay in it since I purchased it in 2001. It has consistently turned in 10 MPG and it has used very little oil, less than a gallon between oil changes.

I purchased a 1989 Thomas Saf-T-Liner RE for $3500.00. I had to put in a $6500.00 transmission into it. It has consistently turned in 7 MPG and it uses very little oil, less than a gallon between oil changes.

Which one am I going to convert now that I no longer use them in service? I can't decide.

The Crown is 35' with a 5-speed stick shift transmission. The Thomas is 40' with an brand new automatic transmission with retarder. The Crown has classic styling. The Thomas is just another bus. The Crown is mid-engine. The Thomas is rear engine.

Both have their good points. Both have their drawbacks. When it comes down to it I think I am going to come down on the classic styling and 10 MPG.

In any case, all I can say is good luck.

Mark O.
Castle Rock, WA

[Mark R. Obtinario]

Here is another valuable link:

http://www.busnut.com/home.html

[Sharkey]

Ben, Mark has provided you with some good information there. I'm going to be lazy and point you towards my favorite bus-info-overload link: www.pardo.net/bus-0035/buses.html

[newbie]

hey guys thanks ALOT for your time, youve just gave me PLENTY of more reading to do.

[Griff]

Here's another link that is well worth investigating:
http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/index.htm
I also agree that you are on the right track by getting as much information as you can before you start. You will find that it still won't be enough, but it will certainly straighten out much of the learning curve and cost less long-term. Looking forward to seeing how it all goes!

[Dj]

Great info, guys. I'm going to have fun digesting all of that.

I've read books on this subject, and have read several websites over the years.

One thing I've come to realize is that as with anything and everything, the old adage still applies.

You can have it good, you can have it cheap, you can have it fast.
Pick two.

Look for salvage materials. There are salvage construction supply yards in every major city. You can find wood, windows, cabinets, plumbing fixtures, you name it... cheap cheap cheap. Slightly pre-used.

Lumber, if you intend to build walls with it, is not cheap. Even the cheapest of the cheap at a Home Depot or Lowes or some place like that is still astronomically expensive when you figure out just how many feet of each type of board you need to finish things out the way you want.

Cabinets are expensive whether you build them yourself or get pre-built.

Shower stalls, sinks, plumbing pipes and such, expensive if you buy new.

In some cases you can save 75% or more if you know where to look and can haggle a bit. Cash in hand helps to sway negotiations in your favor.

When I salvage or flea market or what have you, I tend to divide my total budget for all things into bundles of certain denominations... That way if it really comes down to it in the negotiations, you can reach into your pocket and without much effort you can have a bit more of a "poker face" when trying to hardball and keep your prices down.

I.E. one year I went to buy a nice large dearborn natural gas heater, and went to various flea markets looking for them. The model I wanted was something like $1200 new, but they've been making them for umpteen years. I shopped around, found what was available, picked what looked right, and ended up walking (dollying) out the one I wanted for $75, used... I had managed to talk the guy off whatever his original price was and talk him down to the 75 because basically, and truthfully, the place I was living at the time had only one gas outlet and it was in the central dining room/kitchen area, so I needed a big heater that could radiate to the outside rooms (doens't get terribly cold here in texas lol) and mostly anyone who bought them new were keeping them. This one guy salvaged heaters from demolition and renovation projects, and he had several of the type I wanted. He had one that was dented, scratched, obviously had a lot of use, was missing two or three of the fire bricks but based on my look-through appeared to be in good usable condition once some minor work had been done on it and replace the fire bricks. He was asking $150, which is probably a steal in itself, I had it to spend, but really needed to spend it on something else as well if I could. I pulled out the $75 bundle from my pocket, and said "I have $75 and a dolly that I can haul that thing off, whaddya say?" He went for it. Money talks, BS walks.

Good luck in taking your new start, and best of luck to you three! Sounds like you guys are ready to start a whole new adventure.

[Sharkey]

I'd add one more source to Dj's list of materials resources: Dumpsters, especially at construction/demolition sites. It's amazing how much good materials gets thrown away. I built the boost in the floor of the Crown with dumpster-donated 2x4's and 1/2" plywood. Around here, they dry dimensional lumber just long enough to get the birds out of the branches. Dumpster wood is all perfectly seasoned and dried, and has already shrunk/checked/racked/warped by the time you get to it so you can pick and choose the best wood and not have to worry about what it will do as it ages. Most of the materials that went into building my Housetruck were cast-offs and recycled materials that were rescued from a trip to the dump!

[Griff]

Also contact renovation companies in your area. They are a good source of supply for used stuff out of the buildings they renovate, i.e. residental / hotel / restaurant carpeting & fixtures that many times have very little wrong or nothing wrong with them, they just have to keep looking fresh & new for their owners / guests.
Many contractors will let you have the stuff just so THEY don't have to haul it off! Plus, if you build a rapport with a few, they can give you a "heads-up" on an upcoming job so you can let 'em know what you need, or in the case of hotels / restaurants, you can go pre-screen the decor to see if it suits your application(s).