Veggie bus?

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

Hi Sharkey and the gang

My skoolie/home has a 7.3 ford power plant in it. What would it take to turn it in to a Veggie bus/home? It has 120,000 miles on it and runs great. Is there a factory made kit that I can install or have installed in it or will I have to invent things? If so, What is the cost? If I was to make the changes to my rig/home will I be able to process the veggie fuel myself? If I find that it's more trouble then it's worth or am on the road with no veggie fuel in sight can I just put reguler diesel fuel in and keep going? When I shut down after a long trip will the neighborhood swell a fried chicken joint? Have any of you guys or gals done this to your skoolie/truck/homes and if so, Whatta yah think? Well, that's it for now.

[roasting8]

Hi Dennis,

Installing a veggie system is like installing an aux fuel system. You will have a separate tank, line, filters, and a switch-over between the diesel fuel system and the veggie system.

I would suggest reading about the veggie systems in the following web sites:

http://www.greasel.com/

http://www.enchantedgypsy.blogspot.com/

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x

http://www.skoolie.net/forum/

On Skoolie.net there are a few busses either converted or in the process of converting.

I hope this helps, and I wish you luck on your conversion.

Sharkey, sorry about posting other Forums, but I think they have a lot of good information.

[Sharkey]

No problem posting links to other forums, that's what this one is supposed to be about, sharing information.

I have my own opinions about SVO/WVO, but you might not find them helpful, so I'll keep them to myself.

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

Sharkry

Im only toying with the idea of trying a veggie system on my bus/home so im looking for all opinions on the subject. I will say that im a little worried about messing up a great running bus/home. So, What are your thoughts on the subject. I would like to hear them all, even more so if there bad one's. With feul prices rising I was just starting to think about it.

[Sharkey]

Well, here's what it is.

I would never, (I'll say that again) ~never~ put SVO/WVO through any of my diesel engines. There's no way I want trans-fatty acids inside my injection pump. I've heard too many tales of injector coking and ash deposits inside the combustion chamber to even want to experiment with my three rebuilt diesels.

Everyone I know who was fooling around with WVO has given it up and switched over to biodiesel. Even the people who were making their own biodiesel have stopped and are fueling with commercially made biodiesel.

Part of this is due to the fact that digging around in smelly, greasy restaurant dumpsters is not all that much fun. The quality of the grease is wildly variable even within the same facilities output depending on how long the oil was used, what was fried in it, how hot it was, etc.

Filtering and clarifying your own "free" fuel is very empowering, but to tell the truth, I have a business to run and a bus to build, and it makes a lot more sense to go work for a client and then take the money and buy ASTM certified biodiesel which comes with a warranty than it is to spend time mucking around with nasty used grease. It's a young person's thing. Lots of time and youthful exuberance lend themselves to such adventures. Once reality sets in and the fun wears off, they all eventually find better things to do with their time. I know, I've been there.

I can tell you that soon in the Portland, OR area, and after that in Tacoma WA, used oil will be scarce-to-impossible to find, as the output will be diverted to a new processing facility for manufacturing biodiesel. The old "help yourself to used oil" model is eventually going to be replaced by restaurants and food processing facilities leasing their oil from a supplier and paying the difference between delivered new oil quantity and picked up used oil quantity. This means that the lessee is going to be paying for any oil that "disappears" while in his care. You're going to begin seeing locks on grease dumpsters.

Road fuel and Federal Excise taxes: The bureaucrats aren't stupid. Right now, biodiesel and WVO/SVO are considered "fuel additives", and are mostly exempt from scrutiny over these taxes. I expect that will change when there's enough people using these alternatives to petroleum fuels. In the UK, home brewers of biodiesel can get seriously hammered with fines for not submitting the proper fees.

Second fuel system: Obviously, this is an expense to create and install. Once time investment if you don't consider that vegetable oil eats rubber like biodiesel does. Better use all synthetic hoses and fittings. Oh, and the first time you forget and let the fuel system cool down with veggie oil in the lines and pump, you'll be spending some additional time parked instead of driving while you attempt to heat the entire fuel system to get going again.

Fuel filter clogging: "Oh it's not that bad, I just pull over and clean/replace the filter and I'm back on the road in 10-15 minutes" -Common response of typical SVO/WVO vehicle driver.

When I total it all up, the possibility of engine damage, inconvenience of slopping around yucky used oil, likelihood of operation problems due to fuel system problems, possible legal repercussions, and eventual spotty availability of supply, I'll stick with commercially produced biodiesel. Of course, I'm a bit biased, being part owner of the largest distributor (and soon to be producer) of biodiesel in the Pacific Northwest, SeQuential Biofuels.

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

Ok Sharkey
I was thinking in the same lines but what about the cost of biofuel. Is it the around the same as regular diesel?

[Mark R. Obtinario]

I seriously looked into powering one of my buses with WVO.

I even got close enough to the point of costing out the system.

It was at that point I decided the free fuel wasn't exactly free.

To start with, most of the conversions have been in VW Rabbits or M-B sedans. In other words, I would use more WVO in a week than most of the convertors would use in a year.

There just isn't that much WVO in my hometown. Which meant for the conversion to work for me I would have had to purchase a truck, outfit it with a tank and a pump, a handling system at home, etc, etc, etc.

Once you throw in the potential tax liability the whole project became more trouble that it was worth.

Add in the potential mechanical problems Mr. Sharkey alluded to and it really becomes a no win situation.

Mark O.

[Sharkey]

I would have had to purchase a truck, outfit it with a tank and a pump, a handling system at home, etc, etc, etc.

Once you throw in the potential tax liability the whole project became more trouble that it was worth.

Which is exactly what we found when we were making biodiesel in a garage. After a while, it became apparent that we'd eventually need to be "above board", and so did a study to determine the break-even point of building a production facility.

The results were that if you wanted to have a permitted facility, insurance, utility bills, paid employees (if only paying yourself), licensed company vehicles instead of old VW vans, do the required ASTM certification testing, and do the whole accounting/withholding/taxes thing, the smallest practical plant would be 1 million gallons per year.

So that's what we are building: http://www.mrsharkey.com/qfuels/plant.htm