Good deal or not

Discussions about all things to do with buses, trucks, and the homes made within them.

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longjohn
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Good deal or not

Post by longjohn »

Hey folks new to forum ,been interested in buses for long time is this too much for this bus?http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BLUEBIRD ... 2306c7da4f


i will add a little back ground trucker for thirty+ years , after spending most of today reading the forum , boy i saw some old friends in there 220 cummins /slant 200, saw mention of a 270/ back in the day i had a 290 that would run almost triple digits but thats another story ,.. for years( longjohn is my handle, but now that grand youngins are here i am just popi and of my bride of 35 years of course is Mimi) every time i would zip by a bus mimi would say quit looking, I see that look :oops: boy does she know me. we would like the freedom to do it our way and not go broke trying to it, not sure i think iam partial to front engine ,because like some one posted i want to build a small porch . also for the motor gurus are these 5.9 the same ones as in the dodge pickups? if so has anyone ran into the kdp ( killer dowel pin problem)? i wll find the article so everyone does not think i am nuts.

after giong back to ebay and reading the ad again i see it hydraulic brake , i would prefer air or at least air over hyd
Take a Child Camping and they will have fun
But take a child Campin,
And they will always cherish,
The memory!!!

Campin,Campin,Campin
longjohn
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Post by longjohn »

must not have been a good deal
Take a Child Camping and they will have fun
But take a child Campin,
And they will always cherish,
The memory!!!

Campin,Campin,Campin
Granny
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Post by Granny »

I am so sorry nobody answered this. Somehow I over looked it. The price is fair, if it had air brakes. I am really not the best to judge that, though. I know nothing about the different engines to be able to say one way or the other. Yes, if you are mechanically inclined, and can keep them juice brakes going, sounds like it might be a pretty fair deal.
Dualfuel
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Post by Dualfuel »

Dear Popi,
Have out of service busses really gone up to $3000? I thought you could get them for $1200 at auction. Thats why I didn't carry on about a bus. No disrespect to you...you know the old line, if you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything.
I lived in a bus. I saw what happened to an antique .22 magnum lever action rifle that got left against the wall during the winter. I don't like busses so my answer to the Bluebird would be "Meh"
I don't know what would be better then a bus, but when I find out, you bet I'll crow about it.
I know hydraulic brakes are too expensive and hard to fix on the roadside. I know I'd want something like an NP450 or Silver Series 8V92T. You know about Wolf Creek Pass as well as I do, bigger is better.
Here is the thing though, If you like the bluebird the you should own it. I like 305Es and 453s, that don't mean they are any good or that others like them. They make me happy though and thats what matters. Same goes for you. DF
longjohn
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Post by longjohn »

Granny, Thanks for your reply ...... anyway how is the move going? i have always liked buses,and kicked around the idea of a grumman stepvan. the cost of a van and the conversion = a very good used mom and pop giving up camping class c style motorhome but we want to do it our way so over a period of time and searching for the needed parts, we are not at this time looking for a mobile home ( however in this day and economy who knows) but want some thing tough enough to go logging /forest roads. beach,plus with the one ton frame ive read that it's not to hard to convert to 4x4, which open up getting to that favorite spot ................good luck on the move and be sure to keep the pics coming
Take a Child Camping and they will have fun
But take a child Campin,
And they will always cherish,
The memory!!!

Campin,Campin,Campin
longjohn
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 4:23 am
Location: eastern shore of va
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Post by longjohn »

DF i agree with you , here on the east coast these dealers( nothing wrong with making a living but it becomes easy to deal with one person who buy ten of your counties buses at one pop and always remembers your birthday anniversary( did i just say that ..........forgive me nothing nice factor) than individual purchasers like us .. i found some killer pictures of i wont say house truck as tractor campers, road tractors converted with what appears to be a cargo style box , in this market you can buy ten year old some even less for low bucks tag em as rv no road tax i am die hard cat man but its almost impossible to beat a classic or fld standup cab freightliner with a 60 series detroit 10 speed 3.55 rears ride for a while stop nap ride some more stop for the night have dinner go to bed in you custom camper , yeah i miss the road ( dont tell Mimi)....................popi


http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/trucks.htm
Take a Child Camping and they will have fun
But take a child Campin,
And they will always cherish,
The memory!!!

Campin,Campin,Campin
Granny
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Post by Granny »

Here in a few months once the school districts get their new buses in for the next season, and start selling off the old ones, the price will be a little lower on bus. Especially, if you can go straight to the school district ahead of time, let them know of your interest. Lots of the school districts sell them back to the bus companies when they get in their new buses, for next to nothing. I've seen some leave the bus barn for $100, with a full tank of fuel. But, that was the conventional buses, and that doesn't happen every day. The flat nosed buses tend to go for more. The ones with air brakes go higher than the ones with the hydraulic brakes. It is best, when looking for a retired school bus, if you're after a newer modeled one, to try and deal directly with a school district. This lets you get their service records on the bus, you know they are well maintained, etc. It wouldn't hurt to start putting feelers out with some of the school districts near you now, as to who is getting in new buses, which ones they are getting rid of, you can take a better look at the buses, etc. They try to get their shipments of new buses in during the summer, so the new buses are ready for the start of the school year. Another good thing to do, talk to the transportation managers and mechanics about the different buses that they are retiring.
If you're in a hurry for a bus now, you can shop these others, and still find a decent bus, but might potentially have to pay a little more. This is all just my opinion. I drove school bus, so have a little first hand knowledge about the buses (but engine sizes and info confuses me). I really like driving the big diesel pushers - the flat nosed ones - like what we had for trip buses, with the bigger engines in them. In a conventional bus, I preferred the manual transmission ones (better control in the snow). It's a little better to try to find a school district that has the rural routes, that switches their buses around year to year. Then, some of the miles on the bus are actually highway miles, not just all stop and go. I have never driven a bus with the hydraulic brakes. I cut my teeth so to speak on the air brakes, learned the benefits of them, and didn't want anything else in my bus. When I went shopping for a bus, there was the "wants" list, and the "mandated" list. Air brakes was on my mandated list, along with a diesel engine. Most everything else was "wants".
So, it kind of sounds like you are still trying to decide what exactly you are looking for. Everyone has their own opinions as to what is best. It just has to be what suits your needs and wants the best. For me (an old school bus driver), the choice was simple - school bus. And, if you don't need the full length, I'd recommend finding a little shorter of one, they have excellent ground clearance, and can go just about anywhere. If it's got a wheel chair lift, hey they converts to a toy hauler, can load the 4-wheeler up to go along. :)
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

As I have said before, there is no one bus that is perfect for everyone. As in one size does not fit all.

In regards to school buses, currently the prices are way down. $3K+ for a TC2000 with wet brakes is a bit on the high side IMHO. Check out http://www.harlowsbussales.com/inventory/. They have quite an inventory and the prices reflect that fact.

The 5.9/ISB that is used in many Freightliner, Blue Bird, and Thomas buses is almost identical to the engine in Dodge pick-ups. They do suffer from the dreaded killer dowel pin syndrome. But it has usually been dealt with by the time the bus is surplussed.

The 5.9/ISB is what it is. It is relatively easy on fuel but it really lacks the HP if you are wanting to cruise at highway speeds or spend time in the high mountains. The 8.3/ISC or the DT466 may have similar HP and torque stats but they will climb the hills and cruise much better. Installing chips and other aftermarket enhancers can solve some of those problems but then you will start to have overheating problems. There is no free lunch.

If you are wanting to build a back porch then you are pretty much locked into a front engine bus. The down side of the foward control buses is the engine is right next to you. Read that as noisy, particularly if it is a Cat 3208. A conventional body bus gets the noise outside of the passenger compartment and you really don't lose that much in interior space.

You will want to stay away from the wet brakes. They are not as large as the air brakes in similarly equipped buses and require a lot more attention than air brakes. It is exacerbated if the bus isn't driven on a regular basis. Since brake fluid is hydroscopic you end up with rust in the system that ruins seals. Or worse, lowers the boiling point to where you boil your brakes on a downgrade.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to what you want and what will fit your needs.

I have some words of advice for you.

First, don't fall in love with any particular bus until it is in your driveway with our name on the title.

Second, spending more for a bus that is clean with no rust will save you a lot of time and $$$ in the long run.

Third, the power package is the most expensive part of the bus. Spending more for a good power package will save you many thousands of $$$ down the road. Upgrading power packages or replacing dead engines or transmissions in a vehicle the size of a bus is not cheap. $6K, not including R&R, for a rebuilt Allison automatic is a bargain.

Fourth, don't worry about the tires. By the time you have the bus converted you will most likely need to replace the tires due to age. So why spend more up front for something that will need to be replaced at a later date any way?

Good luck and happy trails.

Mark O.
Winlock, WA
dburt
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Post by dburt »

Mark O, it's good to hear you chime in again on the bus vs bus issues! For a while I thought maby you had moved away from internet land!
longjohn
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Post by longjohn »

mark and others , one question i familar with the 3208, the 5.9 and would love a dt 466 , the 444 is a v8 engine is a 7.3 correct / but is different from the psd7.3? does any one have one and how do they like it? also with the allison auto , with being a bus stop and go lifelong any idea how long can go before needed rebuild i know the variables (ie maint... ) just an idea..thanks popi
Take a Child Camping and they will have fun
But take a child Campin,
And they will always cherish,
The memory!!!

Campin,Campin,Campin
Granny
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:31 pm
Location: Central Oregon
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Post by Granny »

Popi, I can't answer any of your technical questions. What I can tell you is this, some of the rural school districts (like around me), some of the buses here don't do much stop and go to acquire their miles. For example, my route I had was about an hour and a half of drive time in the morning, and again in the afternoon. I covered over sixty miles each run on my route, and had approximately 20 stops. Those are the buses you could "hope" to find, that had been on a route similiar. Of course, there are a few of the buses here that stay in town and do the "town" routes. Those take for ever to acquire any miles, and never see Hiway speeds.
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

Given reasonable care an Allison automatic will last the life of the bus.

If you have a choice go with an MT643 series transmission rather than the AT545 version. The MT series are heavier duty and lock up where the AT does not lock up. Downgrades with an AT545 can be a real white knuckle ride the first time you try to downshift and you don't slow down. You will always find an MT behind a DT466 or an ISC. You will almost never find an MT behind a T444(E) or ISB.

Like any automatic what kills them is abuse and heat.

I drove a town route one year. I had a morning HS and elem run, a mid-day K run and an afternoon HS and elem run. In a day I racked up a grand total of 22 miles every day.

Those kind of runs play havoc on engines and transmissions due in large part to the fact nothing ever really gets up to proper operating temps.

The T444(E) version of the 6.9/7.3L V-8 diesel engine is the same as the 6.9/7.3/Powerstroke V-8 that is found in Ford products. The differences are similar to the differences found in 5.9/ISB Cummins engines found in Dodge products and others--the best are not sent to Dodge or Ford.

The biggest difference between the IHC versions and the Ford versions is Ford messes around with the pump and injectors making an engine that is not as reliable as the IHC versions. It is difficult, at best, to get an IHC dealer to work on a Ford. The other big difference is Ford and IHC have the starters mounted on opposite sides.
longjohn
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Post by longjohn »

mark thanks for all the solid info , so then there is really nothing wrong with the 444, and your right heat is the killer, i am a firm believer in tranny coolers the bigger the better
Take a Child Camping and they will have fun
But take a child Campin,
And they will always cherish,
The memory!!!

Campin,Campin,Campin
Granny
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:31 pm
Location: Central Oregon
Contact:

Post by Granny »

http://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/cto/1729474071.html
Here's one for you to check out. However, I do not have any idea what the bus looks like, just found it on craigslist.
Mark R. Obtinario
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Post by Mark R. Obtinario »

My preference is for inline engines on buses.

V-type engines just don't pull on hills as well as inline engines do.

I have seen buses with 275HP 3208's not able to keep up with buses with 210 HP DT466's on hills.
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