Ceiling Construction

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:47 am

I'm not a "builder" by any means...so if anyone can answer some questions I have before I attempt working on my ceiling, I would sure appreciate the input.

I want to put insulation then interlocking pine to cover my ceilings. How and with what do I attach these to the ceiling?

I was thinking of using construction adhesive to secure the pink insulation boards first (which I will cut into different width strips to conform to the curve). What would I use to secure the pine boards to the ceiling

Jones'n4chrome · Post by **Jones'n4chrome** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:01 am

You could screw or rivet furring strips to the bus. Put them in countersunk holes. Attach them where the sheet metal attaches now.
Then use a finish nailer to attach whatever wood you end up using.

I would maybe use some adhesive also, for the strips and the finish wood.

yugogypsy · Post by **yugogypsy** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:38 am

Hi Blu,

My pal at the hardware store suggested using a thin bendable insulation with door skins over top, because the door skins can be stained to the color you like--and like Chuck said, you'll need strips along in between them.

You have more length of bus to worry about than I do, and would need more of them
But thats my two cents worth on suggestions.

Lois
Please pat Miss Kitty for me

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:31 am

Thank you, Chuck...doesn't sound too hard. Would you happen to know how much space is between the ceiling layer of steel and the outter layer?

Lois...very good idea about using door skin. Would you know where to buy something like that?

I originally bought 4x8 sheets of this white vinyl like water proof panel...I think it's normally used in showers maybe. It's VERY flexible...VERY. I was thinking of putting that up over some insulation. Perhaps use those little round things with a hole for a nail/screw in the center like they use to panel ceilings with. But I decided I'd rather have a wood ceiling of some kind.

yugogypsy · Post by **yugogypsy** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:46 am

Blu,

I was going to get door skins from Rona, because that was where I learned about them. I like Chuck's idea too, and the white stuff you got would give you more light. Try Home Depot for door skins down there.

All depends on what you want.
Wood would make it feel more like a house/home is my only comment.

Or use the white where you need extra light and wood in other areas, like the "bedroom" area ceiling or "living room" ceiling.

I want Pit Stop to feel like a cabin, which is why I'm going with wood.

Here is a giggle for everyone--if I get a running bus I'm going to call it "Race Track" because I already got the Pit Stop

Lois

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:12 am

Lois...thanks...yep, that's exactly why I decided on going with wood instead. I can probably return that other stuff I bought last summer and get store credit to buy something else I need like wood stove pipe parts.

Pit Stop & Race Track

yugogypsy · Post by **yugogypsy** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:20 am

Glad to hear it Blu,

We are always getting stovepipe etc too. Just got your email, Thanks for the positive comments.

Glad to hear you approve of my bus names.

Had to have something that went together

Lois

rlaggren · Post by **rlaggren** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:02 pm

If you're sure there _is_ a 2nd skin overhead, drill a hole a few places and stick a bit of wire through, see how far it will go; then you know.

I think thinner pieces of insulation have some bend to them. If you use, say, 3 layers of 1/2" pink board (or whatever) you may be able to avoid cutting and piecing. I'd try gluing it up because it's easier/faster. Use some skinny whippy strips of 1/2" plywood about 3" wide under it to spread the pressure of cut-to-fit pieces of 1x3 (cheap shit "strapping") cut a little longer than the height of the overhead to wedge the insulation tight against the overhead until the glue sets. I'd try making the protective strips just a little shorter than the width of the bus and do one section full width at a time; see how that works. Have a chop saw on hand, cut about 1.25 times as many strips and props as you think you'll need and cut them just a bit longer. Put the saw real close and cut to the props to fit as you go. A POS chop saw can run anywhere from free to about $35 for a pretty decent one (used, CL or flea-mkt of course). They're handy enough that it's usually worth the risk of a few fingers (you're starting w/10 anyway, right?) to learn to use one. If you don't have a real obnoxious rep at the local box store you can usually get them to rip the plywood into strips for you - up to a point; then they charge a little. If you need 6' strips across the width of the overhead, you can 1st rip 2' off the end of a 4x8 piece of ply, then rip the 6'ers; go back and rip the 2x4 piece for short strips or save it for something else. Your Measures May Vary. Seal all the seams and edges with spray foam or caulk b4 you do the next layer; second layer, cut all the props 1/2" shorter b4 you start; might also be nice to not put the seams in the same places.

OH. And when you place the insul board, put the sealed side - it'll usually be some kind of shiny - down and repair/plug any cuts and tears in it; you want it to be as much of a vapor barrier as possible to prevent you moisture from getting past it into the colder reaches of your ceiling. That's also the reason you try to seal all the seams and edges - _really_ seal them.

After the 3rd layer, you got options. You going to want to mechanically fasten the ceiling, including the insul board - don't want to depend on the glue all by itself, but it's just totally easier to deal with the sandwich if it holds itself up for a while while you add the finish. This is where the note you made about how much space you got between the original sheet metal layers comes in handy - because you're going to screw the everything onto that inside layer of sheet metal, so you need to get just the right length of screws - and don't sink them too deep! If you use sheet goods like the white stuff you got you can just screw it directly onto the sandwich; use "finish washers" and oval head screws to make it look decent and position the fasteners in a nice pattern about 8" or so apart. #8 size (thickness) screw would be plenty strong, you could probably use #6 no problem. If you use fancy fasteners, you probably need to drill first (cuz the nice fasteners don't come with the self-drilling option or the "sharpy" points). That's the best way to control screwing them in anyway. You can bet drill bit depth stops but you might get lucky and find that the drill bit is just the right length - maybe adjust how far you chuck it into the drill. If you use a strip finish (1-1/2" to 3" boards) then you'll likely not want screws all over the place and also you'll need a place to attach the boards with nails. So you'll want straps (firring strips) about every 12-16" across the bus. If that's the case you might want to do your last layer if insulation a little differently - install the strapping (screw it into the roof metal before you last layer of insulation and fill in between the straps with the last layer. You still want to seal it all so it's air and more important vapor tight. If you use tougne/groove boards, you'll likely want to staple them up, not nail them.

Enough.

Rufus

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:38 pm

wow Rufus! Thank you for explaining how to do this for me! For some reason I guess I just assumed all buses have space between the ceiling and the roof. That's a good tip on how to measure the depth so I know for sure....and using 3 thinner layers will definitely be easier and better insulated than how I was going to do it. Man, I can't wait to start working on it again!

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:03 am

Every bus manufacturer had their own idea of building roofs and ceilings. The amount of space between the inside and the outside varies. The amount and type of insulation between varies as well.

Some convertors have tried spray foam insulation between the inner and outer panels. This is a job best left to professionals. Too much and you can cause the panels to burst. Too little and you will have voids.

Removing ceiling panels can be done but it isn't recommended. Just because it came down doesn't necessarily mean it will go back in place. BTDT. Also, most ceiling panels add to the bus's structure. If you remove them and then move the bus you can cause the body to rack.

If interior height isn't a problem Rufus's plan is very good.

Short term, more heat will be let in and out through the windows than through the roof. It will be particularly bad if the window frames are aluminum. Dealing with closing off the glass and elminating the aluminum frames will do more to keep things warm in the winter and cool in the summer than anything else in the short term.

The color of the rood will make a marked difference in the temp inside the bus as well. All things being equal a white roof will result in a 10-20* difference in temp compared to a yellow roof on a hot day.

GoodClue · Post by **GoodClue** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:19 pm

Ezra ... how I insulated my bus ... early pic ...

If you haven't been to my web page, there is a link to the basic history of the bus and it's construction and changes ...

http://www.goodclueproductions.com

I removed all the skin, which you will NOT have to do, rewelded the new outer one.

The new inner insulation, cieling and walls were then added this way:

I drilled holes through the wood and rib flanges and bolted the wood runners to the flanges, first length wise then vertically ...

I used rockwool bats ... non flammable mineral ... today I would have removed the paper ... then, not shown, I stapled 4 mil plastic sheeting to the wood strips or battens ... gave me the perfect base for nailing my paneling to.

I used rockwool with the paper removed behing the stove pipe ... not shown ... behind the stove up to window level and on the floor I used sheet asbestos ... inert, covered with the stainless steel you see in the next pic ...

I built a double walled stainless steel cabinet to allow air flow/heat dissipation and set the stove inside it.

Just some ideas that worked for me ... inexpensive ... especially in the early 70s ...

GoodClue

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:33 pm

Thanks GoodClue....nice work and good photos! I'm heading over to your website now

Stealth Camper · Post by **Stealth Camper** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:43 pm

If you use fiberglass, be careful not to over compress. Loses insulation value quickly.

Goodclue,
Love the bus. Where did you get Aspen bead boards? And is that quilted stainless something you found as standard sheet product?

NOMADICISTA