1989 S1600 White Rhino

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rlaggren
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

IIRC, the clearances for flues relate to "flamable material". That is actually a term art and some things that you might think are flamable are really not - at least not as far as the code or manufacterer's installation instructions are concerned. Aluminum certainly is not, of course. Whether the foam or other insulation is considered flamable is something you have to research in the code books or ask a friendly inspector (really, that's not an oxymoron!). Be careful what type of metal contacts the aluminum and research whether it will corrode it (or die itself) extra quick; eg. copper is a total no-no on aluminum - don't know about galvanized stuff. Stainless will corrode aluminum but it happens relatively slowly, especially if the SS is a small size compared to the aluminum. Also, the double or triple wall flue pipes have their own rules.

You would want to check out the external temperatures on the flue at that point because that would likely impact any waterproofing you install around the penetration. That info might be in the installation instructions. At worst you could probably surround the flue with rock wool or other stove insulation out to the required clearance.

Rufus
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

The link I posted was the installation instructions and I didn't see anything in there regarding what to use in the ceiling around the hole, just the roof. I'm guessing I would need more than 2" clearance around any wood but I'm unsure how far away it should be from the stove pipe and what to put in between. I can't use galvanized near any heat because of the zinc.

The reason I'm asking about this now is because I need to repair and seal up the roof before I leave here. I won't be buying the heater until this fall when I have enough money saved up so I will not have opportunity to test heat. It needs to be right before I install the stove. Rather than repairing and sealing the roof then redoing work that's been done I figured I'd do it correctly now and cap the hole for the trip.

The tiny homes guy has done it a number of times in those with both metal and wood roofs. Anyone know how those were done? I'd use the same materials as in those and should be okay. I've made a few calls to boat installers but as soon as I'm asked what I want to put it in(an RV) they clam up because of liability. I'm on my own on this project.

*Edit - I found a much better explanation and heat index from the Shipmate Stove instruction manual. This will be a good reference to use.

http://www.shipmatestove.com/attachment ... lation.pdf
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stuartcnz
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by stuartcnz »

I don't know what help it will be in your situation, but, the way my Dickinson pacific is installed on my boat is just using the dickinson flue kit. The roof it is going through is plywood, with a wooden block, to level the camber, which has a layer of fibre-glass cloth, covering the top. Through that is a hole cut to take the flue kit, which from memory consists of the inner chimney and an outer tube, with an air gap in the middle. on the inside, there is a disc which sits flush with the inside of the roof, and has some holes cut in it. I think that may be to dissipate the heat. the out side of the flue kit has a shroud which is just screwed down onto the roof, with a sealing compound to stop water coming in. Unfortunately I don't have a photo, and probably won't have the opportunatey to take one for a couple of weeks.

The long and short of it is. I don't know how it works in your situation, but if it is just going through a plywood roof, then the stock Dickinson flue kit works, as is.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

That helps in that you are pointing out what I don't see here in the states. While the directions are rather vague(imo) I did not know there were flue kits. I have never seen them advertised or as part of a parts list so that's definitely something I'll be looking into. The spec sheets are no longer available on the website. All I see is a listing of individual parts under the heaters. I'll look into that flue kit and see if it's available here but in retrospect I kind of doubt it because there is quite a bit of variation amongst the states about what is available. NOW it's time for some oatmeal!
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by stuartcnz »

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/parts.php#diesel

Deck Fitting w/ Dress Ring. top of page
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

stuartcnz wrote:Deck Fitting w/ Dress Ring. top of page
I saw that part but it doesn't mention that it's part of a kit, that may be where my confusion about the parts lies. I haven't emailed them yet but my need for info is based on what I need to do in the interior, like how far from the pipe do I need to cut the pink insulation board, what can I use to fill that space and what can I use between the dress ring and whatever decorative ceiling cover I end up using.

I have made some progress today! My truck is now at the new storage/parking lot! YAY!!

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This is not my truck leaning, it's really how unlevel the parking lot is. Luckily there is enough wood scraps laying around that I'll be able to level it out.

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The shop fixed the ramp so now it's super easy for me to pull out and shove back in. I can almost do it with one hand so that made me really happy. He said all he had to do was cut off a tiny bit off some metal piece.

He couldn't fix the air ride. I have to replace this valve or whatever it is to stop the continuous air leak that's preventing the air from even reaching the tank, air ride seats and air bags. It's only a couple of bolts and the metal air line and the mechanic said he'd come out to where the truck is now and replace it.

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Another cool thing is my truck starts with very little knocking or smoke, so that smoke fest and knocking I heard when it was cooler were definitely temp related. I'm so used to electronically controlled diesels this mechanical one throws me at times. Anyway, after the mechanic drove it on the highway a bit and dropped it off at the new place he was impressed and told me how well it performed for the short trip. This makes me happy since except for the maybe 1/2 mile it's been moved between parking areas, the shop and inside the warehouse, it's been parked since September.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

Good to hear good news! The old girl cleans up pretty good. <g>

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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by Headache »

I was pleasantly surprised a couple of days ago when that valve stopped leaking and the air tank and bags filled. It was the first time since the seats were bolted to the floor that I could fill them with air and they are still holding air. I still have to replace the drain valve in the air tank as it still leaks but I'm so glad that despite the leaky drain valve the system is working properly. Air ride makes things nicer.

I cleaned up the cab really well so it will be ready for the metal guy. He's going to remove the seats, reweld the patch plates on the floor and fill it the extra holes from removing the old bench seat. Then I'm going to prep the floor and firewall with rust treatment and primer then seal it with something.

I'm going to insulate and soundproof the cab somewhat but I'm not going to go overboard doing it. I won't be using jute or anything that absorbs moisture after all the work that is being done to to floor. I may try something like this:

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/index.ph ... dge-detail

It's raining off and on the next few days so I won't be working on the truck until Friday.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

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I've rearranged most of the wood inside the truck and had a helper come out and move the plywood I couldn't lift. Then I started taking down the old electrical that had been installed by one of the previous owners to power their mobile catering business. You can see the treated wood on the right and the untreated wood and some of the floor joists on the left.

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I've also changed how I'm going to build the raised floor. The property manager where I live came out and looked over the materials I have and where I was planning to locate things. He asked a few questions, thought over some things and then said, "Why don't you do this..." and ideas came pouring out. I really over-complicated my design but since I'm not an engineer it was bound to happen. I won't be raising the floor as high and I'll be putting the fresh and grey water tanks inside the cabin area. The poo tank will still be inside the box and below the floor. The floor joists will be cut in half, the halves slid together then fastened. The floor is going to be raised about half of what my design was.

The property manager also offered to get a construction friend and the both of them will lay down the floor for next to nothing. I'd love for this to happen but as I've found out in the last 9 months it doesn't matter how much I pay someone, I'm getting nothing done if they don't show up or just disappear. I very much dislike having to rely on other people. I took him up on the offer with the statement that I've lost months of time waiting for other people aside from delays that were my fault and I just can't wait anymore. If it's going to take weeks before they can finally come out it's not soon enough. He said they can do what I need done in one day. I'm sure they can but it doesn't help me much if it takes weeks for them to decide what that one day will be. I don't want to sound ungrateful, believe me I am that he even offered. But I figure that as of today I'm out about $3000 in storage and other costs because of delays outside my own cause. I've become really skeptical.

I'm now facing weather delays so it's not like I'm going to get it done tomorrow on my own. They keep saying were going to have afternoon thunderstorms and because I'm walking I make sure I get home by 1pm...and nothing happens. If nothing solid is scheduled with the property manager by Tuesday I'm putting an ad in CL advertising for a helper that can measure and use a circular saw. I can assemble things just fine. I need stuff moved and wood cut.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

Being able to recognize a good idea when it comes by - that's right up there.

Skeptical am us! <g> Just gotta keep moving and be thankful those times somebody arrives b4 the train leaves. When I generaled a restoration after a fire at my parent's home I finally decided that guys that did What they said they would, When they said they would were worth almost anything they wanted to get paid. Anything else just cost me five times over in time _and_ money.


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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

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Okay! Things are starting to happen but I'll update that in a few days. In the meantime I have a side project that I'd like to do but I'll have to get some advice from some "pros"<looks at Stuart>.

After the floor redesign I was looking at my floor plan I had labored over for weeks to create and realized I still wasn't happy with it. Drawing upon my inspiration from the floor redesign I decided to tackle the floor plan. Since I was losing half the basement space I realized I was also losing a ton of storage space under the floor. So with pencil and paper in hand the lines just started pouring out from my hands onto the paper.

It took me 10 minutes...literally.

With the new plan I now have a bigger bathroom, more storage, working and counter space for the kitchen and a larger "living room" area with more storage there. I was almost shocked when I realized the time. It just happened, all drawn out...in 10 minutes. I love it.

In order for me to move forward with my project I need money so next month I'll start stealth camping in my truck. It's the only way I can free up the cash. However, I also have to make it look like I'm actually working on my truck instead of living in it being I'll be spending a ton of time there and my money will only go so far. Hence the beauty of this next idea. It's creative, beautiful and will burn a ton of time for almost nothing *IF* I learn how to fiberglass first.

So! Let's talk fiberglass!

The reason I want to learn to glass is that I couldn't find a suitable shower pan and enclosure for my bathroom and even if I did it would take up too much room. I decided to go with a wet bathroom, slightly sloped floor with a drain somewhere in the middle. I decided that maybe glassing the bathroom might be a viable option because of two websites. The first was from a boat plan website:

http://glen-l.com/designs/hankinson/plywoodbb.html

And the second was my looking for some way to make the enclosure look beautiful:

http://www.paintyoga.com/Faux_Finishes.html

I thought fiberglassing the bathroom would be a good option because it would burn a lot of time I'll be spending at the truck. I'll have to live in it for a month so I should have plenty of time not only to create the project but also to allow the bathroom quite awhile to off gas. I don't have to paint "marble" tiles like those at the yoga site, I can go with a simpler design. I just thought how funny would that be for anyone looking at my bathroom that their first impression was that I spent the money to install marble tiles. lol

I was looking for some sort of book like "Fiberglass for Dummies" but found nothing so I here to ask the pros about it.

Today I mark the one year anniversary of surviving a tornado and what a better way to do it, by designing a "decadent" bathroom for a squeaky old moving van. lol
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

> shower surround...

Home Depot has fiberglass sheet goods, 4x8, 1/16 thick, pebbled on one side, flat on the other, white and maybe some other color. Not _real_ cheap, but probably worth it if it's close to what you want. They also sell plastic edging to join sheets and for corners. Can't really recommend that so much except to say it's better than nothing at all; the edging tens to get to looking dirty after a few years. It's really flexible so it needs to be installed over some kind of backing (glued on) to keep it flat.

I've done several small projects in glass GRP or FRP (glass or fiberglass, reinforced plastic) comes in to flavors: Epoxy and poly. The epoxy is more water resistant and sticks to things better but it's more expensive; the poly is really good and functional stuff as long as you don't need to stick like death and taxes to something besides itself.

Online vendors are probably the cheapest. There really is a lot of information out there. Sorry, I looked for my old files, but it's been 10 years since I researched this stuff in depth; if I find them let you know. Your application is non-critical so you can probably just use the cheapest stuff you can find. Assuming you use poly, you can pretty much use any glass you can find but if you use epoxy you need to make sure the glass hasn't been coated; at least when I was learning about it the poly resin used solvents that would dissolve the coating on the glass and everything would work fine, but the epoxy resin didn't dissolve the coating so it the bond to the glass was relatively poor. So if you use epoxy, ask about the glass working OK with the epoxy.

There are two type of poly - one with wax in it which will harden completely by itself (the wax "floats" to the surface and seals the resin from the air), the other w/no wax which will not harden completely as long as it's exposed to the air. The latter makes laying up several layers over a period of hours or days easier; to harden the layup poly, you need to spray it with a coating (forget the name) or cover it w/saran wrap - coating works easier. Or just use the resin with wax in it for the final layer. After completing the job and it hardens you need to wash it thoroughly before paint will adhere.

You need a few plastic spatulas like for bondo. Gloves, the blue kind are supposed to be more chemically resistant which is fairly important if you use epoxy. A couple different shaped ribbed rollers are a big help. For small jobs paper or plastic dixy cups are good for mixing; larger work need cottage cheese containers. Get the plastic tongue depressors - they make the best mixing sticks and are totally reusable by flexing the and snapping the dried goo off. Wax paper or saran wrap helps when you don't want things to stick to something else. Set up a large tray or bin on which you place the resin and mixing stuff; keep it and the stuff more or less together (find it all next time) and contained and the mess slightly contained.

Here's a link to a pro doing a job on a bass boat he's just built. Search the forum for his user id to find his other threads. W/out question he's the most get-it-done glass guy I've ever seen. Reading all his posts is GRP 101, 201,...; for post grad you gotta get your hands sticky... <g> I haven't looked at his posts for a while, but I _think_ he uses epoxy. But many of the glassing techniques should apply across the board.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. ... ueup/page6

All that said, making your own shower stall is going to take a big chunk of learning and time.

Oh, and the warnings: I don't know about the poly but the epoxy s/b treated with a fair amount of respect vv. getting on your skin and inhaling the fumes. It's cumulative and if you trigger an allergy it's going to be way, way harder to keep working in that material. So you may want to plan where you personally are going to hang while the stuff sets over night.

Rufus
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stuartcnz
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by stuartcnz »

Sorry to take so long replying, time has been very tight the last few days. I don't have actual experience in laying glass cloth, though have used a fair bit of epoxy and spent alot of time around boat building projects and boat builders to have picked up the jist of it.

In this day and age, I wouldn't bother with polyester resins (which require serious ventilation or better yet, breathing aparatus) when working around plywood. the price difference with epoxy isn't enough to justify the results, particularly with beginners. Simply epoxy is more forgiving and will adhere to the ply wood in a much easier fashion. Rufus is spot on with his recommendation for avoiding direct contact with epoxy. You should also work in a very well ventilated area with it. I have been fortunate to so far avoid sensitivity to it, but know people who haven't been so lucky. The reaction is severe and ongoing.

The general rule for making the glass go on easy is to flood the surface with epoxy first, then float the glass on. As I mentioned I haven't actually done this myself, but that is what I was told by a very experienced shipwright friend of mine.

There are a couple of important things to remember when fibre glassing. The first is that epoxy heats up, so when mixing, you want to make small batches at a time. When making bigger batches, you need to make them in a wider and shallow mix. Bigger batches of epoxy generate considerable heat, reducing working time, can and will catch fire if not carefull!

The second thing to remember is that glass doesn't like going around sharp corners. So going around the outside of an edge needs to be well rounded, and on the inside of an edge needs to have a round edge filleted (generally with epoxy filler).

If I were to do some fibre glassing, I would first do a test piece, about a foot square, just to get the feel of it. Once you start you have to keep going until the job is complete, so you want to know what to expect before you start.

The best information for working with epoxy is the book "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction" by Meade Gougeon ISBN 1-878207-50-4 It is specific to their West Sytem epoxy, but is transfereable to other epoxies too. You might be able to find it in a library. Make sure you mix epoxy to the specified ratio. It is a chemical reaction, so different ratios don't make it go off quicker or slower, just weaker of not at all. different brands of epoxy have different ratios (West is generally 5 to 1) 3 to 1, 2 to 1, or 1 to 1 brands will be easier to mix generally and for what you want to use it for, most any brand of epoxy marketed for fibreglassing and wood construction is going to be fine.

Personally I try to avoid doing fibreglass work, and thus far in my life have been able to find an alternative way of doing things, but for doing what it does, it does do an extremely good job.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by stuartcnz »

Also, when it cures, epoxy can have an amine blush on the surfuce, which feels tacky. this can be taken of with a scotchbright pad with warm water and dish soap.
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Re: 1989 S1600 White Rhino

Post by rlaggren »

The mantra followed by many (after sad and sorry experiences) is "mix, Mix, MIX"! that resin and hardener. But try not to entrain too much air bubbles.

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