ezrablu - 1991 Bluebird of Happiness

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:49 am

Hocus Pocus. It was done through osmosis.

Funny thing is, is that I didn't do it.

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:32 am

Your thoughts must be strong...the power of the mind is amazing!

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:16 am

Blu, I admire your tenacity in the work you have done to your bus so far. I really like your thread. Keep on keepin' on.

Of course, you can always ask questions of the "bus family".

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:27 am

Thank you, Rudy...that means a lot coming from you. I'm also learning a lot from your thread....which has given me a question about the brakes on my bus. I was told my bus has electric brakes....could this be correct? I've never heard of them. And then I was told by someone else that electric brakes are a bummer to have on a bus?

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:56 am

Electric Brakes? I have only heard of those on trailers. Basically they are an electro-magnetic system.

I have NEVER heard of electric brakes on a vehicle. All I know about is hydraulic or air brakes.

I am sure that the brainy guys on the site will give you some responses.

Oh, and by the way, Thanks for liking my thread.

somewhereinusa · Post by **somewhereinusa** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:00 am

I can say without a doubt that you have hydraulic brakes. In the pictures you posted at the beginning the brake master cylinder is clearly visible. In the set of pictures of the engine compartment it's the third picture of a white reservoir with black caps. That is where the brake fluid is added.

Electric brakes are the most common kind on trailers (not semi)

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:35 am

Well thank you very much for the quick answer! Now I can even check my brake fluid (finally). I still haven't had any luck in obtaining an owners manual or engine manual for my bus.

Any opinions on hydraulic brakes? Good, bad or ugly info?

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:39 pm

If you have hydraulic brakes you may have electric override on it

Before you start your engine, if you press on your brake pedal do you hear the sound of something like a wiper motor? If so, you have hydroboost with electric override.

You would not be able to stop your bus if your power assist was not working. In the old days the power assist came in the form of vacuum assist. This worked until the advent of the mid-range diesel engines.

With a diesel engine you don't have any vacuum so another form of boost had to be developed.

Some boosters came in the form of a vacuum pump run off of belt and boosted the brakes the same old way. Others used the power steering pump to boost the brakes. Both worked great except neither worked when the engine was shut off. Hence the development of an electric booster pump that will boost the brakes with the engine shut off.

So yes, you may have electric brakes.

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 pm

Personally I would not like to have hyrdaulic brakes on something like an RV that doesn't get a lot of use.

Brake fluid is hydroscopic--it attracts water. Over time the moisture lowers the boiling level of the brake fluid and can lead to brake failure at the end of a long downgrade. The moisture is also really hard on brake cylinders.

Air brakes, on the other hand, if they are maintained correctly will have no moisture in the system. After weeks or months of sitting, once the air pressure is back up to operating pressure you are good to stop once again.

The other real advantage of air brakes is the very positive braking action the emergency/spring/parking brake has. Once you release the air to the springs the brakes on the rear axle lock up and you are stopped. The same can never be said about a driveline brake like most hydraulic equipped vehicles have.

somewhereinusa · Post by **somewhereinusa** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:30 pm

Hydraulic brakes are fine. they have been used for years on some medium and heavy trucks without much trouble.

You would not be able to stop your bus if your power assist was not working.

I'm not too sure about this. I've worked on all kinds of brakes over the years. I've never come across the assist you mention (that doesn't mean it isn't so) All power assists I've seen, you could still stop the vehicle, you just had to push the pedal harder. Even on that horrible thing Ford did with the power brake,windshield wiper,power steering run from the power steering pump.

Ezra, there should be a metal tag somewhere on the engine with numbers on it, it's probably silver, it looks like a dt466. It will have model and S/N on it. Your bus is basically an International truck, except for the "bus" part. The main thing that is different about a bus is the wiring and switches. I'm trying to find wiring diagrams for my Blue Bird, it I have any luck I'll let you know.

I suggest taking very sharp pictures of all of your ID tags and keep them on your phone if you have that type of phone. I also print B/W pictures blown up to full page size and keep them in a notebook I have for the bus. That also includes anything that I have added that has any kind of ID info.(furnace,inverter,etc) That is also where I keep measurements, ideas, and other info I think I might need. I have all of that stuff on the computer, but I'm old and like to have a "book" about it in my hot little hands.

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:24 pm

Thank you for sharing your knowledge

Mark, I will try pressing my brakes before starting it and listen. I know there is a loud buzzing noise as soon as I turn the key that makes it nearly impossible for me to hear anything until the engine starts. I can't remember exactly what the other person said, but it was basically that the brakes are electric and if the electric fails I won't have brakes. I might not be wording it exactly as they said it but that was the gist of it. I'll update this post after I try pressing them with with the engine off.

somewhereintheusa, I have taken photos of all the metal tags, motor parts, etc. but your idea of printing them and putting them into a binder is a wonderful idea. I could keep it right in the bus and it would be much easier for me to locate than to keep hunting through my photos. Thank you...I know mine is a DT360 and I'm waiting for the school mechanic to get back to me...I'm really hoping he has an extra manual they don't need. If they don't, I'm gonna try all the schools in the area...one of them is bound to have one.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:32 pm

I remember driving a 1968 Oldsmobile 98. It was a big heavy car with power brakes. That was a big bowl shaped thing on the firewall. It provided assistance to the braking by using vacuum from the engine.

One time, the power assist unit quit. I could still stop the car, but I had to really put a lot of force on the brake pedal.

Mark R. Obtinario · Post by **Mark R. Obtinario** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:22 am

The DT(A)360 engine is a great little engine. It is the little brother of the DT466. It has the same power and torque ratings as the Cummins 'B'-series 5.9L found in so very many medium duty trucks and buses. It will pull hills much better than similar buses equipped with the T444/T444E (also known as the 6.9L/7.3L?/powerstroke in Ford products). And it will do so using less fuel.

When I say if the power assist should fail you won't be able to stop the vehicle what I meant to say it is going to be really hard to stop. Think in terms of putting both feet on the brake pedal and pulling as hard as you can against the steering wheel to get enough leverage to push the brake pedal as hard as you can physically push. Eventually you will come to a stop. But you won't be stopping on a dime. BTDT and would rather not do it again.

You most likely have some sort of hydraboost that works when the engine is running. You will most likely see some lines coming from the power steering pump to the master cylinder. When the engine is running the boost will come from the power steering pump. The electric override will cut in when the engine is off and there is no boost coming from the power steering pump.

Which is all to say how important it is on your pre-trip inspection to check all of the belts. You really do not want to lose your power steering when you are out on the road.

ezrablu · Post by **ezrablu** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:43 am

Mark, thank you for all this information

My sister and her husband took my bus to New Mexico and back to Wisconsin when they were moving FULLY loaded front to back with their belongings and furniture. He said it went through the mountains in New Mexico and Colorado with the greatest of ease. So I'm REALLY happy to hear you confirm this about the DT360 in my bus!

And thank you for the safety tips on checking the belts. The first thing I'm gonna do when I go to put the batteries back in is do a good over all inspection and retake photos to print to make sure I have good detail of everything.

I can't express the relief I feel from being a part of this forum....thank you â™¥

rlaggren · Post by **rlaggren** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:01 pm

EB

Another good for a healthy vehicle is to keep a log of what you do. Just like on a boat. Date, odometer, event (eg. change oil), cost, notes. Any piece of machinery that needs regular care needs a log because nobody remembers that stuff all that well. I keep a routine log (fueling and other fluids) and a maintenance log (all other).

"Did I replace the ground as well as the hot battery cable?"

"Was it the left rear inner or the outer tire that I replaced 2 years ago?"

"I thought I replaced that blown headlight last month... or was it the other one?"

This info helps a lot if you can put your finger on it quick and easy. Also, observations, test results, phone numbers, part numbers, etc. All the stuff that's simple right at the time and utterly impossible to ever know again shortly thereafter.

Cheers, Rufus

NOMADICISTA

ezrablu - 1991 Bluebird of Happiness

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