1973 Blue Bird

[Rudy]

Thanks, Mark for the info.

It does make sense that that door in the front is for access to steering. By the way, It is not easy to drive because there is a lot of play in the steering wheel. I will investigate to see if that is something I can adjust.

On the horn cover, it say Ross Cam and Lever steering. I have no idea what that is. I remember on my 1959 Ford pickup truck, I adjusted the looseness by loosening a jam nut on the steering box and tightening the screw down a little. That fixed it.

I know nothing about this big beasty I now have. I will have to get in there and look around. Usually, I can figure things out if I look at it long enough.



Thanks, Sharkey, for the brake air tank info. I reckon I start the motor and then get under there and open up the petcocks.

Here is a strange thing. First of all, the only brake lights I have right now are two little lights (4 inches in diameter). They are where the license plate is. There are also big brake lights and turn signal lights above that. Shawn and I are going to try to figure out how to hook those up to the brakes.

The weird thing is that when the motor is running and the parking lever is on, those little brake lights stay on. I find that odd.

It will be a challenge, yet rewarding when we get that stuff straightened out. Shawn did say that my turn signal lights work. Those must be the big yellow lights.

Wouldn't it be great if all the problem was was burnt bulbs? That will be the first thing we check. Here is a pic of the lights. I also have big blue and amber lights on the front roof area. Oh, those lights up on the roof area, I'm guessing, I should not use.





So, if I understand this correctly, if I was to lose air pressure while driving, a spring mechanism would put the back brakes on automatically.

At least I could steer off the road, or at the very least not crash. Does that spring mechanism lock the back brakes full on?

Thank you, everyone for answering my questions. I admit that I am ignorant about the mechanical aspects of this bus, but with looking and studying, I will know a lot. It is kinda like teaching myself how to play accordion.

[Sharkey]

Not sure what the upper set of red lights is, maybe part of the warning flashers for departing students protection or part of the four-way hazard lights?

On my coach, the stop lights stay on while the parking brake is engaged. The stop lights are energized by an air pressure switch, and the parking brake actuator is a valve that pressurizes the wheel cylinders, locking the brakes "on". This is separate from the spring brake that causes the brakes to lock when the air pressure is lost.

You might want be concerned about those blue lenses on the front of the bus. At least in Oregon, only certified emergency vehicles and school buses/worker transport buses are allowed to display a red lens (even one that is not illuminated) on the front of a vehicle. Only police and ambulance vehicles can display a blue lens front or rear. Having these on your bus is just one more reason to get pulled over and hassled by law enforcement.

The red sealed beams on the Crown had been sprayed over with black paint when I bought it. I removed the red lights and replaced them with regular automotive high beam sealed lamps. A little extra illumination while on the road alone at night.

Don't dick around with your steering too much, take it to a qualified mechanic for evaluation. It might be possible to take up some of the slop by adjusting the cam and lever box, but if the loosness is caused by something else, tie rod ends, drag link, knuckle bushings, etc, you won't be able to adjust it out, and getting the steering box too tight will cause it to wear out faster. Make sure the fluid level in the box is correct too. The Crown has the Ross steering, and my front end is tight, no slop in the wheel whatsoever.

[Rudy]

Wow, Sharkey, I like the idea of extra headlights in the front at the top. I'll do that. Maybe I can turn the rear upper ones into backup lights. I sure would be able to see well then. I will have to save beaucoup bucks to go to the mechanic to check out the steering. I will, however look at it, so I have an idea what he will be looking for. Merci, monsieur. That is my native language for "Thank you sir".

[Sharkey]

Those look like standard lenses, so finding some in clear for the backup lights would be pretty easy. Don't know what you'd have to go through to adapt the fronts to hold headlights/spotlights, but it could be done.

Having the steering evaluated shouldn't be too expensive, if there is any cost at all involved in having it inspected. At least you'd know what you needed to repair or adjust. I had two mechanics working on the Crown power steering for about an hour, changed my steering fluid filter, tightened the belt and only charged me $54, so I guess it depends on what the shop feels like at the time.

The Housetruck, on the other hand, has had the front end all rebuilt except for the steering box, and it wanders all over the road. Once the box gets to a point of no repair, no amount of adjusting will make it better. If I drove it more, I'd consider getting a rebuilt/replacement box and eliminate the problem.

[Mark R. Obtinario]

Looking at your bus I have to guess that it started out life as a school bus and was then used by some sort of law enforcement agency due to the color of the bus and the blue and red lenses on the over head cross over lights.

Best idea for use of the over head cross over lights is to take them out and cover the holes with sheet metal. Any other use is likely to get the attention of law enforcement, not something you really want to attract.

Originally the inside pair of lights were amber and used as the bus came up to a stop. The outside pair of lights were red and used once the bus had come to a complete stop.

In order to use them as back up lights or auxillary head lights it will require a lot of rewiring at the least. The front left and rear right are wired together and the front right and rear left are wired together. The inside pair of lights were originally wired seperately from the outside pair of lights. It will be a particularly difficult rewire if the lights are strobes and not incandascent lights.

I think you will find the two light unit at the top of the bus on each side is covering a single light hole in the body of the bus. They look to me as if the bus was retrofitted for an 8-way light system over the old style single red on each side that was standard before 1975. If that is the case you will find a lot of wires in the overhead.

In regards to the steering, yes the Ross power steering box has some adjustment to it. But before you start messing with the steering box find out where the slop is. Drag link ends, broken springs, tie rod ends, and king pins can all contribute to sloppy steering.

An easy way to determine just what exactly is sloppy is to start the engine and have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth, lock to lock, as you examine what is going on underneath the bus.

If the steering wheel moves a lot before the drag link moves then the slop is most likely in the box. But if the drag link starts to move but nothing else does you know the slop is down the line.

I would suspect worn king pins or tie rod ends before I would suspect the steering box.

In regards to the brake system, your bus is equipped with spring brakes that operate on the drive axle. They apply when there is no air in the system. If you look at the air cans on the front and rear axle you will notice the rear air cans have two cans on each side instead of just the one can on each side the front axle has. The first can is the service brake air can and operates identically to the front brake cans whenever the service brake pedal is applied. The second can has the spring inside of it which is applied whenever you have low air or apply the parking brake by removing the air from the system (that is why when you apply the parking brake you hear a big whoosh of air releasing).


WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT TRY TO OPEN THE SPRING CAN UP! Doing so is a good way to kill yourself or destroy body parts.

The spring brakes should apply automatically when your air pressure goes down to 30-35 PSI. When the spring brake is applied it applies the full force of the springs on the rear brakes. It would be the same as if you were to push the brake pedal all the way to the floor but without the front brakes applying. If your brakes are not adjusted properly the spring brakes will not apply properly. That is why proper brake adjustment is so very important, particularly on the rear brakes.

In regards to the lights on the rear of the bus, in some jurisidictions it is a requirement for buses that the brake lights come on when the key is on and the spring brakes are applied.

Sometime in the mid- to late '80's Blue Bird started wiring the big brake lights into the tail light circuit as standard equipment. The little lights above the license plate and the big lights should/may light up whenever the brakes or tail lights are on. When you open up the light lens, if the bulb has two elements it is wired that way. If it only has a single element then the big lights are only brake lights. Since your little lights light up with the brake I am inclined to think your big lights are wired as tail lights and brake lights.

If they don't work and the bulbs are good I would suspect a wiring glitch somewhere up the line. The easiest way to fix them would be to take off the inside back panels and find what works in the back and splice them into what doesn't work. Following wires from the dash area to the back of the bus for a break in the line can be a most frustrating experience.

[Rudy]

Mark, you sure know a lot about this stuff. I woud not think of opening any of those brake cans in the back. Thanks for the warning.

I don't intend to do anything but look around down there for now. I believe it is safe and a good idea to drain those three air tanks though. I really haven't crawled around down there yet.

I managed to get a carpentry job, so I will have to wait until the weekend to look around and take pictures. Covering the upper light lenses with sheet metal would surely be the easiest thing to do.

The bus served as the Johnson City Emergency Management Vehicle, here in Tennessee. It is very nice of all of you to offer these helpful tips. I am going to take notes on a pad so that when I am under the bus, I will know what to look for.

[stuartcnz]

As usual with my reply with any topic, I will wonder off topic. Apologies in advance.

I have just returned from a couple of weeks in a camper in the States, so have only just caught up with this thread.

In regards to where you should be driving on your lane of the road, you don't want to head to either the left or right side of it. I noticed a lot of truck drivers over there sticking to the right side of there lane. This is either lack of experience in large vehicles, or lack of education.

The best and safest place on the road for you and everyone else is in the center of your lane (I am planning on writing some expanded tips for people new to driving large vehicles on my blog in the next few months).

The easiest and most accurate way of determining where you are on the road is to use your side rear vision mirrors (the only mirrors on most large vehicles). You should be constantly looking in both mirrors when driving and evaluating where you are on the road. A day of this should set you up for when you can't see at night, but always maintain the practice, particularly during the day when you can see.

[Sharkey]

Continuing with the off-topic topic, are we going to get to read about some of your exploits during your visit over here?

[Rudy]

Stuart, tomorrow I am getting a bunch of CDRs and will be making lots of copies of my music. I will send you some.

[stuartcnz]

Mr Sharkey,
I will certainly be writing about my trip. It will probably be a while before I do, but I promise to do so.

Rudy,
I look forward with anticipation.

[Rudy]

Gee, I hope this does not sound like too dumb of a question. Here is a pic of the weight placard. My question is, do these numbers refer to the weight capacity, or is this how much the bus weighs? 30500---12000---18500. I sure hope the bus doesn't weigh 30500 lbs.

[Sharkey]

GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating

This is the maximum amount of weight your bus was rated to carry, including passengers, baggage, freight, fuel, and anything else put onboard.

GVAR = Gross Axle Weight Rating

This is the maximum amount that the given axle can be loaded with, independent of the total weight of the vehicle.

If you haven't done so already, you will want to weigh your bus. Most truck scales will do this for you, but they usually have a charge for "certified weight", i.e. making a statment and supplying you with a stamped weight card that can be used for registration, etc. If you get friendly with the scale operator and tell him that you are only interested in knowing the weight, but don't need the card, he might let you weigh for free.

In Oregon, there are roadside scales set up in many places that are used by the highway department for checking loads of logs travelling around the state. These are usually electronic scales with large, lighted displays where you can see them from the driver's position. Most all of them are left running when not attended. I've weighed many a load on several of these.

You might also run through a regular highway weigh station sometime to get the weight. Buses are usually exempt from being required to weigh, but I dout that anyone would raise an eyebrow if you rolled through with your bus.

[Dennis The Bus Dweller]

I put big blue on the scale at the land fill ( dump ) for free.

[Rudy]

I remember that I weighed the Dodge Class C at the dump. I will do that with the bus as well. It has been raining here for two weeks. Today however, it will be sunny. This is also the coldest morning we have had yet. (57 degrees). This afternoon, when it warms up and the grass is dry, I will take photos of under the bus. Hooray!

[Rudy]

Yipee, it was sunny today. It inspired me to clean the house (bus), do some decorating, and crawl under the bus for some photos. Let's start with the decorating.



This is an abstract piece I made. The red corner pieces came from an old lampshade. Those pieces are 90 years old. I hung this piece on the top window of my back door.