Music Central
Moderator: TMAX
Mo Music!
Hey Rudy...I know what U R talking about when it comes to carper tunnel. I had surgery a couple years ago. Most of the damage was to my right wrist. I kind of blew it out spraying lacquer for so many years--constant grabbing of the gun. Piano playing didn't help either. I grew up with no amps so learned to "bang" the keys to be heard. The electronic keyboards and the accordion are much easier on my wrists. It's arthritis in my thumbs joints that bothers me now if I play a lot.
I didn't buy the accordion in Greece. Didn't want to haul that thing around and I already have two like it. Our band is hard to pin down. We do some rock, blues, bluegrass, folk, Americana and I've written a "tango" song that our crowds seem to enjoy. We mostly play for back-yard BBQs, b-days, weddings with an occasional bar and charity concerts.
You must bring that mandolin when you visit (notice I said "when") and we'll get the guys together and have a jam session. It's always fun to kick it with other kindred spirits! I'll be writing you soon so we can get one of those housetruck books in your hands!
Fred
I didn't buy the accordion in Greece. Didn't want to haul that thing around and I already have two like it. Our band is hard to pin down. We do some rock, blues, bluegrass, folk, Americana and I've written a "tango" song that our crowds seem to enjoy. We mostly play for back-yard BBQs, b-days, weddings with an occasional bar and charity concerts.
You must bring that mandolin when you visit (notice I said "when") and we'll get the guys together and have a jam session. It's always fun to kick it with other kindred spirits! I'll be writing you soon so we can get one of those housetruck books in your hands!
Fred
Fred, I did notice that you said "when". Perhaps you have seen my 1973 Blue Bird thread on the Bus Barn forum. It will be a few months before I can even think of traveling. It is very generous of you to invite my visit. I have spent quite a few years on the west coast. I have lived in California and Washington. I did visit in Oregon as well. I am highly mobile. I live with my two dogs. The only thing that stops me from going anywhere presently is a lack of a big wad of moolah. In my youth, I was not afraid of taking off and going to a new place. I have driven across the US twelve times. Nowadays, I am not so adventurous. I have endearing memories of my times on the west coast. You may find me there once again. For now, I am existing in Tennessee. It is OK. I must say, though, I am a stranger in a strange land. Hell, nobody even speaks French here!!! Rudy
Rudy, my uncle Larry Burt passed away about 3 weeks ago at age 83 in Portland, Oregon. He was a retired dentist, and a guitar and violin maker par excellance. When I read that you sanded a guitar down with a belt sander, I heard him roll over in his grave!
That made me think about his son, my cousin Chris Burt who makes violins, violas etc and has quite an interest in all things muscial. He has a website, www.chrisburt.com. You might enjoy visiting it to see his stuff. He lives up somewhere in the San Juan Islands near Seattle, I have never visited him up there.
He and his dad stopped by to see us about 2 years ago when they were on thier way down to Arizona to see my aunt and my dad who traveled over to my my aunt's place in Tucson to meet up with them. He brought along one of his mandolins and played it. It was a very nice instrument, and he played it well!
The reason I have no musical ability is because it seems he got all the family's musical talent delivered to him pre-natal. Oh well, I can play the radio, the CD player, and the occasional cassette player.

That made me think about his son, my cousin Chris Burt who makes violins, violas etc and has quite an interest in all things muscial. He has a website, www.chrisburt.com. You might enjoy visiting it to see his stuff. He lives up somewhere in the San Juan Islands near Seattle, I have never visited him up there.
He and his dad stopped by to see us about 2 years ago when they were on thier way down to Arizona to see my aunt and my dad who traveled over to my my aunt's place in Tucson to meet up with them. He brought along one of his mandolins and played it. It was a very nice instrument, and he played it well!
The reason I have no musical ability is because it seems he got all the family's musical talent delivered to him pre-natal. Oh well, I can play the radio, the CD player, and the occasional cassette player.

DB, Sorry to hear about your uncle's death. At our age, it is inevitable that our relatives pass away. I really don't think that he is turning in his grave about my belt sanding guitar tops though. He might be thinking "perhaps I should have just put a Tung Oil finish on that instrument". I will stick to my guns when I say that acoustic stringed instruments DO NOT need lacquer finishes. I went to your cousin's site. Those are WAY COOL looking mandolins that he built. I am glad to see that he has an adventurous approach to style. Why try to make them look like all the rest? If they sound good, then he has the key. I would love to own such a unique instrument.
Actually, in the hands of a skilled operator, a belt sander can be made to perform wonders. And if you handle that belt sander the way you do those strings and keys on all your instruments, then I am sure you know what you are doing
What is scary is when someone with a grand old house with hardwood floors says "I think I will refinish these floors myself to save money! I'll just rent a floor sander from Home Depot, it can't be all that hard, can it?"
BIG Trouble brewing!!
(I just figured out how to use those emoticons- can you tell??)
What about Minwax antique oil finish on a guitar? Doesn't build up a thick coat unless you put many mulitple coats on. Would it protect the wood, while not inhibiting the sound?? Just wondering!



(I just figured out how to use those emoticons- can you tell??)
What about Minwax antique oil finish on a guitar? Doesn't build up a thick coat unless you put many mulitple coats on. Would it protect the wood, while not inhibiting the sound?? Just wondering!
Last edited by dburt on Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DB, Those emoticons are fun. I don't know about the minwax stuff. I do know it protects wood. I also know that Tung Oil protects wood as well, and is a thin surface. My thought is just to paint an instrument with an epoxy or enamel paint. I must be crazy to oppose all the traditional ways of making instruments. I am glad I know more about it than I know about crockpottery cooking. I expect to receive some rebuttal on the issue of guitar tops, and I welcome it. I say, just prove me wrong. I spoke with John Lundberg many years ago, and he told me that people don't really know how to make a guitar. He was a luthier in Berkley California, who was famous for his non-conformist ideas on guitar building. Even, HE, admitted that there was a whole lot to still be learned about the trade. By the way, he was the one who took a Martin D12-20 guitar and put a cutaway on it and added a longer neck to it, and sold it to Leo Kottke. It is pictured on the cover of Leo's album that is titled Time Step.
I like this forum! Music, House Cars, Busses...now all we need is an espresso machine and a pool table!
Rudy already explained about the guitar sanding ordeal..I did dig in just a little too hard for a second and sent the guitar flying off the kitchen table and across the room. He didnt tell you all that it was a brand new Gibson J-45. Rudy was right about the sound! This guitar was like no other I have had or played since. Unfortunatly its early demise might have had something to do with the exposed wood (I never did paint it) and a lousy fret job from Ericks Custom Guitar in southern Ca.
I do have a 1962 Guild 12-string that I used chemicals on to remove the finish. That was done maybe 14 years ago and it is still going strong! The low end in it sounds awesome! I will post some pictures in here soon if you all would like. I also have a myspace where you can hear some recordings...see some videos (pronounced.."videeeooooze) and get free downloads. www.myspace.com/bobhalloran
Right now I just got the rv back and the brakes work! This is the first diesel pusher I have ever owned and I am learning a lot about proper maintenece for these beasts. Brakes...engines...or anything else in a gas machine is no problem but this stuff is big on here! (Rudy has a great story of us installing a new engine in his 1966 Chevy truck...in the rain)
Rudy already explained about the guitar sanding ordeal..I did dig in just a little too hard for a second and sent the guitar flying off the kitchen table and across the room. He didnt tell you all that it was a brand new Gibson J-45. Rudy was right about the sound! This guitar was like no other I have had or played since. Unfortunatly its early demise might have had something to do with the exposed wood (I never did paint it) and a lousy fret job from Ericks Custom Guitar in southern Ca.
I do have a 1962 Guild 12-string that I used chemicals on to remove the finish. That was done maybe 14 years ago and it is still going strong! The low end in it sounds awesome! I will post some pictures in here soon if you all would like. I also have a myspace where you can hear some recordings...see some videos (pronounced.."videeeooooze) and get free downloads. www.myspace.com/bobhalloran
Right now I just got the rv back and the brakes work! This is the first diesel pusher I have ever owned and I am learning a lot about proper maintenece for these beasts. Brakes...engines...or anything else in a gas machine is no problem but this stuff is big on here! (Rudy has a great story of us installing a new engine in his 1966 Chevy truck...in the rain)
Oh Yeah! I forgot about that engine story. That's when Bob blew me up with a fireball of gasoline. You will all have to wait until tomorrow for the details. It is worth the wait. BOOM! Also is the story of me getting my finger stuck in a hole of the camper. Not once, but TWICE!!! I think that Bob should tell you the finger story.
THE ENGINE INSTALL: It was in Azusa,California (part of LA) where Bob found the 1966 Chevy truck camper. I was, at that time, living in a 1980 Chevy van. Bob had already found his 1963 Chevy (factory built) camper.
He suggested that I get something bigger than my van to live in. So we go see this guy we affectionately called uncle Bill at his "shady" street corner used car lot.
There was a 1966 Chevy pickup truck with a 10 foot truck camper that someone had done a nice job of permanently installing. It had a 327 engine which had blown a timing chain.
Uncle Bill wanted $2500 for it. He had a mechanic there who was working on installing the new timing chain. Well, Bob and I hung around for hours while Bill assured us that the repair job would fix the problem.
So the "shade tree" mechanic finally gets it put together and goes to fire up the engine. All that happened was a lot of sputtering and a couple of loud pops. I looked at uncle Bill and said that the engine was not going to work.
At that point, he accepted defeat. I knew right then it was time to make my move and get this truck for cheap, so I offered Bill $800 and two banjos. I think the banjos clinched the deal because when I mentioned them, his eyebrows raised. It was a done deal.
I think it was at that time that Bob and I rented a car hauler trailer and towed it to the parking lot of the apartments where Bob was living. Before Bob got his 1963 Chevy, he had a 1966 VW camper van. We parked the 66 Chevy next to that.
Obviously, I needed an engine now. I looked at remanufactured engines at auto part stores, and was going to get one but a friend (probably Joel) said that that was not a wise move. He said that sometimes there is a difference of 30 thousandths diameter between cylinders on those. He suggested that I go see William Loe in Northridge.
William Loe built most of the engines for the stock car racers at Saugus Speedway. I took a trip down there and talked to him. I told him that I wanted a strong engine that would run on regular gas. He built a 383 stroker, which is a 350 block with a 400 crankshaft.
He made it so the compression was 9 1/2 to one so I could use regular gas. What I got from him was just the lower end. I had to get my own valve covers, intake manifold, and carburetor. I used the original "ram style" exhaust manifolds, and I think also the heads.
William Loe charged me $2500 for the work he did. So I haul this motor back to Azusa and now I am needing a place to install it. Bob and I go see Uncle Bill and ask him if we can use his car lot to do the install. He said that it would be OK. Now the work begins.
I had never installed an engine before, so I enlisted the help of Bob and Joel. I rented an engine hoist. We all met at Bill's and the work began. Unfortunately it rained the three days it took us to finish the job. Bob and Joel and I arranged our vehicles so that we could stretch a tarp and make a tent where we could work.
I suggested to Bob that we attach the transmission to the engine and install them both together. It made sense at the time. Well, as hard as we tried, they weren't going to fit in there while they were attached. Being determined to do it this way, I came up with a solution.
I said to Bob, "I'm gonna take a Sawzall and cut the floorboard here and make a flap so we can get this thing in" Bob laughed. He thought that was ridiculous. But I DID cut it and we bent the metal out of the way, and we were able to get the engine and tranny in. Then I just bent the metal back.
Finally the engine is in, and we have the hood installed as well. We are all excited about starting it up. So I crank it over and nothing happens. I figure that the distributor is not in the right place. So I ask Bob to do the turning over of the engine as I try all the possibilities of the distributor placement.
Naturally, after several tries to no avail, the intake manifold becomes full of gasoline. NOW HERE IS THE FUNNY PART. I was telling Bob to turn the key on and, if it didn't start, turn the key off. All that Bob could see of me, who was sitting in the engine compartment, was through the small slot under the hood when it was open.
Apparently there was some miscommunication. I thought the ignition key was off,( but it was still on) So I go to change the distributor to another position and as I am pulling it out, I say to myself "what a pretty blue spark"
It was at that moment that a humongous explosion of fire comes out of the distributor hole. It looked like the trail of a rocket taking off.
Fortunately, I was sitting on the fender. The blast sent me rolling off the fender on to the ground. Now, keep in mind the limited view that Bob had inside the cab. He said to me afterwards, "Oh my God. I blew Rudy up!!!"
Funny thing is that I did not receive any burns. I guess my quick reactions saved me. My quick reflexes is probably why I was a good boxer in my youth. So that is the day that Bob blew Rudy up. Here is a picture of Bob's 63 (WHITE) and my66.

Here is a pic of the three of us during that era. Joel on the left, me in the middle, and Bob on the right

He suggested that I get something bigger than my van to live in. So we go see this guy we affectionately called uncle Bill at his "shady" street corner used car lot.
There was a 1966 Chevy pickup truck with a 10 foot truck camper that someone had done a nice job of permanently installing. It had a 327 engine which had blown a timing chain.
Uncle Bill wanted $2500 for it. He had a mechanic there who was working on installing the new timing chain. Well, Bob and I hung around for hours while Bill assured us that the repair job would fix the problem.
So the "shade tree" mechanic finally gets it put together and goes to fire up the engine. All that happened was a lot of sputtering and a couple of loud pops. I looked at uncle Bill and said that the engine was not going to work.
At that point, he accepted defeat. I knew right then it was time to make my move and get this truck for cheap, so I offered Bill $800 and two banjos. I think the banjos clinched the deal because when I mentioned them, his eyebrows raised. It was a done deal.
I think it was at that time that Bob and I rented a car hauler trailer and towed it to the parking lot of the apartments where Bob was living. Before Bob got his 1963 Chevy, he had a 1966 VW camper van. We parked the 66 Chevy next to that.
Obviously, I needed an engine now. I looked at remanufactured engines at auto part stores, and was going to get one but a friend (probably Joel) said that that was not a wise move. He said that sometimes there is a difference of 30 thousandths diameter between cylinders on those. He suggested that I go see William Loe in Northridge.
William Loe built most of the engines for the stock car racers at Saugus Speedway. I took a trip down there and talked to him. I told him that I wanted a strong engine that would run on regular gas. He built a 383 stroker, which is a 350 block with a 400 crankshaft.
He made it so the compression was 9 1/2 to one so I could use regular gas. What I got from him was just the lower end. I had to get my own valve covers, intake manifold, and carburetor. I used the original "ram style" exhaust manifolds, and I think also the heads.
William Loe charged me $2500 for the work he did. So I haul this motor back to Azusa and now I am needing a place to install it. Bob and I go see Uncle Bill and ask him if we can use his car lot to do the install. He said that it would be OK. Now the work begins.
I had never installed an engine before, so I enlisted the help of Bob and Joel. I rented an engine hoist. We all met at Bill's and the work began. Unfortunately it rained the three days it took us to finish the job. Bob and Joel and I arranged our vehicles so that we could stretch a tarp and make a tent where we could work.
I suggested to Bob that we attach the transmission to the engine and install them both together. It made sense at the time. Well, as hard as we tried, they weren't going to fit in there while they were attached. Being determined to do it this way, I came up with a solution.
I said to Bob, "I'm gonna take a Sawzall and cut the floorboard here and make a flap so we can get this thing in" Bob laughed. He thought that was ridiculous. But I DID cut it and we bent the metal out of the way, and we were able to get the engine and tranny in. Then I just bent the metal back.
Finally the engine is in, and we have the hood installed as well. We are all excited about starting it up. So I crank it over and nothing happens. I figure that the distributor is not in the right place. So I ask Bob to do the turning over of the engine as I try all the possibilities of the distributor placement.
Naturally, after several tries to no avail, the intake manifold becomes full of gasoline. NOW HERE IS THE FUNNY PART. I was telling Bob to turn the key on and, if it didn't start, turn the key off. All that Bob could see of me, who was sitting in the engine compartment, was through the small slot under the hood when it was open.
Apparently there was some miscommunication. I thought the ignition key was off,( but it was still on) So I go to change the distributor to another position and as I am pulling it out, I say to myself "what a pretty blue spark"
It was at that moment that a humongous explosion of fire comes out of the distributor hole. It looked like the trail of a rocket taking off.
Fortunately, I was sitting on the fender. The blast sent me rolling off the fender on to the ground. Now, keep in mind the limited view that Bob had inside the cab. He said to me afterwards, "Oh my God. I blew Rudy up!!!"
Funny thing is that I did not receive any burns. I guess my quick reactions saved me. My quick reflexes is probably why I was a good boxer in my youth. So that is the day that Bob blew Rudy up. Here is a picture of Bob's 63 (WHITE) and my66.

Here is a pic of the three of us during that era. Joel on the left, me in the middle, and Bob on the right

Last edited by Rudy on Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:25 am
- Location: Old Hickory, TN
- Contact:
Sharing music
Ok Rudy, here it is...my first post. Hope your happy now! To update everyone else, I'm the 'Jamey' that Rudy mentions farther back in this thread. I've been following his Blue Bird thread, and reading all about Sharkey's exploits which are all quite interesting. I'm afraid about the only bus experience I've had was when I was a starving musician, and we traveled all over the mid-west in a rickety old school bus. It wasn't outfitted for sleeping, so we'd still sleep in motels or friends houses in the town where the gig was. I met Rudy a few years ago when I was looking for someone who could tune my old Standella accordion and we became fast friends. He never would take on the tuning project, so I eventually tuned it myself. What a learning experience!
I noticed there was a question (from another thread) about how to share music. I've found a great solution called Orb http://orb.com/ that turns your PC into a streaming audio server. I've made a play list called Big Bus Jammin' I that are 9 songs that Rudy, Stan & me recorded in Rudy's bus. Here's a link:
http://mycast.orb.com/orb/html/permalin ... d=OP65z4KL
One caveat; the PC I've set up as a music server has a limited upload bandwidth. If it say's it's busy, just try again in a little bit.
I noticed there was a question (from another thread) about how to share music. I've found a great solution called Orb http://orb.com/ that turns your PC into a streaming audio server. I've made a play list called Big Bus Jammin' I that are 9 songs that Rudy, Stan & me recorded in Rudy's bus. Here's a link:
http://mycast.orb.com/orb/html/permalin ... d=OP65z4KL
One caveat; the PC I've set up as a music server has a limited upload bandwidth. If it say's it's busy, just try again in a little bit.

Music Central
Rudy ... taking off like a charm
You do good work and know good people ... the links to their/your music and info are great ...
My instruments:




The Dillion is Korean, plays wonderfully, the Ibanez is rare, only seen one other double cutaway, highly embellished and not for sale, the viloin is an 150 years old Ernst Kreusler, German, excellent ... have a beautiful enlayed bow but use the carbon fiber, and you can see the Hohner is a student model, 25 keys total, plays fine for me to learn with ... I've also a couple of concertinas, English tuning ...
I'll list my "studio" equipment in an email along with some tunes of mine ... again, low cost. I'm using Sound Forge Audio Studio now, came with my Vegas Pro video editing software ... the tunes were done long before, for my archaeology DVDs.
Keep on keepin' on ...
Doug

My instruments:




The Dillion is Korean, plays wonderfully, the Ibanez is rare, only seen one other double cutaway, highly embellished and not for sale, the viloin is an 150 years old Ernst Kreusler, German, excellent ... have a beautiful enlayed bow but use the carbon fiber, and you can see the Hohner is a student model, 25 keys total, plays fine for me to learn with ... I've also a couple of concertinas, English tuning ...
I'll list my "studio" equipment in an email along with some tunes of mine ... again, low cost. I'm using Sound Forge Audio Studio now, came with my Vegas Pro video editing software ... the tunes were done long before, for my archaeology DVDs.
Keep on keepin' on ...
Doug
Last edited by GoodClue on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Doug, Those are nice looking instruments. I love the way you photographed them with the bus walls in the back. On another note (no pun intended), do you use TinyPic to upload you photos to the forum? If you do, you might think of resizing them so that they fit the forum. 640X480 works well. Otherwise, you have to scroll left and right in order to read the text when you go to the thread. All that can be corrected because you can always go back and edit your posts. After you press "choose file" and before you upload, press the Resize button and choose Message Board 640X480. It will automatically make the uploaded pics fit on the forum thread. Try reloading the pics again.
I am anxious to hear your sound track. The snake oil traveling show sounds like it would be adventurous. I don't know how it would fare as this is a modern age. I always wanted to join the circus though, but carneys have a bad reputation. I suppose if you were to travel in a group, you could protect each other. I hope you are staying warm in your bus. I know it is a lot colder there than here. Blocking off the bottom of the bus does make a big difference. I wish I was close and could visit you. Perhaps I will find myself out west again. Oh, are those stick-on pickups on your mandolin and violin? Tell us about them and how well they work. Rudy
I am anxious to hear your sound track. The snake oil traveling show sounds like it would be adventurous. I don't know how it would fare as this is a modern age. I always wanted to join the circus though, but carneys have a bad reputation. I suppose if you were to travel in a group, you could protect each other. I hope you are staying warm in your bus. I know it is a lot colder there than here. Blocking off the bottom of the bus does make a big difference. I wish I was close and could visit you. Perhaps I will find myself out west again. Oh, are those stick-on pickups on your mandolin and violin? Tell us about them and how well they work. Rudy
Music Central
Rudy ...
Those are Shadow piezo pickups ... work very well. Move the pickup around the surface of the instrument till you find the "sweet" spot then stick them on with the included gum like adhesive. Approx $30.
I used to buy them through MusicYo.com ... just checked and they are now selling through Gibson dealers ...
I then run the instruments to acoustic pre amps ... a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum, cost a little over $100 ... and a Behringer VTone Acoustic ADI 21, ran about $40 and does just as well ... they work with microphones using 1/8" jacks also. I have a NADY dual mic pre amp for my condenser mic, an MXL 990s, and also use a Radio Shack dynamic mic which can use XLR or 1/8" cables.
Everything I have uses batteries, even my amp, a Crate 30 Watt Taxi ... or can be plugged in to standard outlets with the power warts ... I prefer acoustic and enjoy playing outdoors ... am going to record in some of the canyons I do research in, along with filming ... I've run vocals and instrument into my Crate, sometimes using a Digitech for effects, then into my computer via an M Audio USB interface and recorded fine, editing in the computer.
I have a huge portable TEAC 8 channel mixer from Mike and Patti of my band but am looking at a Behringer battery mixer to complete the setup.
Now I've picked up this little ZOOM H2 for digital audio and am jazzed with the possibilities ... decent on site filming and audio at remote locations ...
You would be welcome anytime, along with any sojourners ... hopefully with their instruments. To do any travelling, with the latest economy, I'd have to press my old BMW back into service, and use the sidehack for pets and music ... not a priority, tho I do miss long road trips.
You have many invites already, contact me if you do travel through ...
I hope to get somewhat settled this next year and all are welcome, especially if I or the band can build the music halls or acoustic cafes we talk about ... a day at a time ...
Doug
Those are Shadow piezo pickups ... work very well. Move the pickup around the surface of the instrument till you find the "sweet" spot then stick them on with the included gum like adhesive. Approx $30.
I used to buy them through MusicYo.com ... just checked and they are now selling through Gibson dealers ...
I then run the instruments to acoustic pre amps ... a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum, cost a little over $100 ... and a Behringer VTone Acoustic ADI 21, ran about $40 and does just as well ... they work with microphones using 1/8" jacks also. I have a NADY dual mic pre amp for my condenser mic, an MXL 990s, and also use a Radio Shack dynamic mic which can use XLR or 1/8" cables.
Everything I have uses batteries, even my amp, a Crate 30 Watt Taxi ... or can be plugged in to standard outlets with the power warts ... I prefer acoustic and enjoy playing outdoors ... am going to record in some of the canyons I do research in, along with filming ... I've run vocals and instrument into my Crate, sometimes using a Digitech for effects, then into my computer via an M Audio USB interface and recorded fine, editing in the computer.
I have a huge portable TEAC 8 channel mixer from Mike and Patti of my band but am looking at a Behringer battery mixer to complete the setup.
Now I've picked up this little ZOOM H2 for digital audio and am jazzed with the possibilities ... decent on site filming and audio at remote locations ...
You would be welcome anytime, along with any sojourners ... hopefully with their instruments. To do any travelling, with the latest economy, I'd have to press my old BMW back into service, and use the sidehack for pets and music ... not a priority, tho I do miss long road trips.
You have many invites already, contact me if you do travel through ...
I hope to get somewhat settled this next year and all are welcome, especially if I or the band can build the music halls or acoustic cafes we talk about ... a day at a time ...
Doug
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